Good Governance – Continuity, Culture, and Change

Episode Notes

Transcript

Dave Blaner:

Technology has its place, but I think when you strip a lot of that away, it just gets down to people communicating and trying to get together to solve problems, and we give our members that opportunity.

Amanda Arriaga:

Welcome to the next episode of Leading the Bar, brought to you by the National Conference of Bar Presidents. I’m your host, Amanda Ariaga. Today we talk to the leaders of a bar association that embodies good governance. The Allegheny County Bar serves the Pittsburgh legal community and has the great fortune of having been led by an executive director for over three decades. He believes in initiating and maintaining relationships with the legal community, planning for future growth, and ensuring a healthy financial condition of the organization. When it came time for this ED to retire, theBar put together a transition plan to ensure the operations would be seamless from the perspective of the members and the community. Joining us on the panel today, we have Regina Wilson, immediate past president, Amy Coco, president Daniel Fitzsimmons, president-elect, Tom Metropolis, assistant executive director, and Dave Blane, executive director. Welcome Allegheny County.

Dave Blaner:

Thank you.

Amanda Arriaga:

Thanks for having

Amy Coco:

Us. Thank you.

Amanda Arriaga:

I just want everyone to know that you all are such a friendly group of people and you adopted me since I didn’t have places to be, and so I’ve been able to have dinner with y’all like three times and I’ve always had the best time. So thank you for letting me be one of your sister bar associations and I’m so happy to know you and to have everybody else learn about you.

Amy Coco:

Allegheny County is inclusive. We want members from all over the nation.

Amanda Arriaga:

Absolutely. I’m joining. I want to start with Dave, you have served in the executive director role since 1991. Tell us why it was so important to you to have plenty of transition time in retiring from the Allegheny County Bar.

Dave Blaner:

Alright, Amanda, just a little correction there. I actually served as the assistant executive director from 91 to 2000, and then I stepped in as executive director in 2000 and have served in that role up till now and I’ll finish my career here at theBar on June 30th, 2026. So I had the pleasure of being an assistant executive director for our first executive director who served 38 years and I worked with him for nine years and that really helped me to develop this vision of what a good transition would look like and feel like having worked for his name was Jim Smith. During that period of time, I really was able to get into the organization, understand the culture of the organization, develop relationships with all the employees. We now have over 80 full-time employees, so we’re kind of a unicorn among bar associations, bar foundations, and start to actually develop my vision for the organization while I was the assistant executive director.

And I think what helped is it wasn’t a monumental shift. The day I took over as executive director, I think most of the staff probably said it was just like any other day, right? They came into the office and I changed offices and I had a new name tag versus my old one. And it was very subtle, but it was strategic and it was planned that way. I knew that I was planning to retire in June of next year back in 2020 and just before COVID, I told the board, I said, look, we’ve got five years, we ought to start talking about this. I have an employment agreement with the association. So maybe that made it more comfortable that I knew I was pretty solid in my position and my performance so I could kind of start talking about this with the board and a crazy thing COVID hit and that kind of put everything on hold.

And when we came out of COVID 20 22, 20 23, our executive committee met again and I said, look folks, we need to really get this started and go out there and find somebody who can take my place. And we’re very fortunate that we just didn’t talk about it. We executed on it and we brought Tom on and we’re 22 months into it at this point. And I would say that it’s exactly what I envisioned it would be. It’s a smooth transition. It’s working the way I would hope it would work, and it’s giving Tom an opportunity to get to know our culture, who our members are, who the staff is, who they are, how they work. And I think that’s what we need is we’re a complex organization, we’re not a small organization. We’ve got a lot of moving parts. And so I think in order for us to have continuity of service to our members, I think it’s so important that we develop that long range plan.

The board bought into it, it’s cost us some money. We had to budget for it. Not everyone has the ability to do this. And quite honestly, this isn’t a one size fits all situation. This really works because of the fact that I have an employment agreement and we were able to plan this far out in advance. Not every situation is going to be like this. There are going to be people who have health issues that have caused them to have to leave. Maybe they’re just not a good fit for the organization and the board wants to make a transition and in some cases financially, the organization can’t afford to bring somebody in. So that transition period could be days, weeks, or maybe a couple months, but in our case, we’ve been able to make this work and had that longevity, that timeframe in order to bring Tom up to speed.

Amanda Arriaga:

It’s quite a feat that even before your 30 year legacy started, there was a 38 year director before them with such good governance and planning. Does it make it hard to be innovative? We know that we have to do certain things to keep it on the train. Maybe that’s not a good question for Dave. Maybe that’s for Regina or Amy because I would think that there is some balance of we have to do what we’ve always done so that things go well. But when there are new ideas like Regina started her own podcast for Allegheny County, whether those are easy things to come up with.

Regina Wilson:

So I think that’s part of our culture is to change and to innovate. And definitely it comes from the members up. A lot of our new ideas come from our members, whether they’re leaders chairing a committee section or division or they’re just very active members. That’s how some of our committees have been formed because enough people got together and said, we have an interest. We don’t feel that this is being addressed within theBar Association. This is what we’d like to do. And I think something that was given to me as I was leading into the presidency and something that I’ve said to both Amy and Dan is this is what I did. This is how I found success. This is the advice that I’ve gotten from other past presidents. But take it and make it your own just because I did this does not mean that you have to do this.

But I think underneath it, to Dave’s point, there’s always, and looking towards this transition, there’s always just this sense of continuity and community and culture within our bar association. And it’s very important that we maintain it. And it’s not just the leaders or the members or the staff, it’s everyone working together to create that culture. And so that’s been the main thing that we focus on. But we have to grow, we have to evolve, we have to change. And so we can’t be stuck with this is the way it’s always been done, how do we change but keep our culture.

Dave Blaner:

Amanda, if I could just add to that. So one of the things that I thought was important when I first came to the organization was having financial stability. And while we’ve always had success and we’ve always had financial stability, I wanted to ensure that that financial stability was the bedrock of my administration. And so I made sure that we are extremely financially stable. And so that takes a lot of the worry off of these officers that they want to have a special project or do something because we have the financial resources to make these things happen. And I think again, that takes a lot of the worry. It takes a lot of the planning off of the board when they say, we’d really like to innovate, but how are we going to raise the money? That question comes off the table. And I think that’s something that I want to make sure that Tom continues into the future, that we maintain that financial stability and I think it’s key to allowing us to be innovative.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, and I love that that is right on your website because I don’t know that every bar association has that as the bedrock. I come from a state government background and the number one thing is this is not our money. So we’re always doing things to make sure that we are using the money correctly and for the right reason. And the same thing should be happening with bar associations. We don’t just spend our money down to zero every year because we need to be thoughtful because there could be a crisis like COVID or there could be a new special project you want to do. So I think that is one of the most impressive things about your bar and the idea that it will continue is very important. Amy, did you want to jump in?

Amy Coco:

Yeah, and actually I’m going to follow on that. We start every single board meeting reading our mission and value statement. So we have continuity from one presidential officer to the next just because of how we govern in that regard. So when I came in and wanted to expand on but kind of do my own thing after Regina’s year, I look at our mission and value statement and say, does this align with what we’re supposed to be doing? And internally what we do to keep that continuity but also change and innovate every year with a new presidential officer is our executive committee has a retreat in the even numbered years. And we get together as an executive committee with Dave and Tom and sit down and talk about strategic planning for the next year. And then in the odd number years, we have a full board retreat.

And we just had, it was Tom’s first board retreat, full board retreat about two-ish weeks ago. And that’s where the board talks strategic planning for the next two years. It allows us to talk about and meet because things change. I mean, Dave’s talked about he actually was going to retire last year and it was right before COVID. And that’s when he talked to the board about let’s start planning for this. And then COVID happened and we had to pivot and innovate for that purpose. And now I get to be Dave’s last president instead of the first new president of Tom’s administration. But that’s how we innovate every year because you have a new president and a new president with goals and projects that they want to implement. We tie it back into our mission and value statement and we plan for it with our board retreats and our executive committee retreats to keep that continuity.

Dave Blaner:

And if I could add one more thing to that. So I have given all of my directors and staff permission to fail. And if you want to innovate, you have to take risk. And bar associations by their very nature are risk adverse. So I’ve told my staff, if you’re not taking risks, you’re not trying to innovate. And so failure is an option and you should be expected to fail because I felt like you learn more from your failures than sometimes the serendipity of success. And so if you’re trying to innovate, you’re going to be creating things that maybe somebody else hasn’t done or tried. That means there’s going to be some failures, there’s going to be some mistakes. And that doesn’t mean you get punished for that. In fact, we sit around and we laugh and we say, boy, we learned about something that we never knew about because it failed. And then we changed course and we made it successful. And so I think one of the things I’ve learned, and this goes back to my city government days where I was in some pretty progressive cities that I managed, is we said, look, if you want to be innovative, you are going to fail. But that’s okay. And that’s how we learn and that’s how we create new ideas, improvise. And I think that helps to create success.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, it’s helpful when failure is an option because then you can try new things and no one’s embarrassed. And we tried it. I had a brilliant idea, didn’t work. Oh well, we’ll try something again next time.

Dave Blaner:

We had a for-profit subsidiary for about 12, 15 years, about a million and a half dollars a year in net profit. And it worked great. And then after 2013, the economy changed. The legal economy here in Pittsburgh changed, and we had to close it down and shut it down. But for 13 years it added extra money, non-dues revenue to us, and it was pretty innovative for us. So I think again, it was risk taking. The board knew it, but they were willing to give us some try. We used to create software for bar associations was innovative. We had a video deposition service, court reporting service, those types of things that helped our members and obviously put money back into the association.

Amanda Arriaga:

Now Regina, I think that you can agree one of the best roles on a board is immediate past president because you’re not in charge. You can sit back. But even in this role, you have taken the reins to be the relationship and continuity manager as this transition is happening between Dave and Tom. So can you tell us how this transitioning is happening and how you’re leading them through that?

Regina Wilson:

So I would say I might be lead, but it’s definitely a team effort. And as I was thinking about this, I realized that I was in this process from the beginning in terms of I sat on the committee that was formed to hire the new assistant executive director who was Tom and went through the process and I listened to a lot of different people’s perspective because we pulled from different parts of theBar association and the foundation to make the committee was made up a lot of different perspectives. And something that we’ve mentioned earlier was culture and continuity was very top of the list. And so in thinking about that and going through the process and then theBar Association hiring Tom and getting to travel with him, I mean, he was traveling with us to national conferences within two weeks of joining the A CBA. And I think one thing that really helped, and this was some advice from Dave, was to start including Tom on most of our communications.

So I would say 90 to 95% of our communications, Dave and I, and Dave and I already had an existing working relationship. I included Tom on those emails and that literally could be anything from do I have to go to this event or what are we doing for this to, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think this will be a problem? So that he got an idea of not only the relationship between the executive director and the president, but also just sort of the pace of our organization. And I think something that also has helped is as Tom began to grow into the role and become more comfortable, and Dave could always be the easy person to go to and say, I need help with this. Starting to work with board members specifically, but also other members who would say, well, who do I talk to about this?

Who can I go to and volunteering? Tom? I don’t know if Tom was always happy that I was volunteering him, I would often say just let Tom know that I told you to reach out to him and ask the question or ask him to look into this for you as another way to not only show his skill to our membership, but also for him to get to know different people. Because as we’ve mentioned, Dave has been here a long time. People know Dave. I did not know the previous executive director. So Dave is the only executive director that I’ve known. So there’s a comfort level in sticking with what you know. But at the same time, Tom had to be integrated into our community and made a part of and for members to meet him. And as a member of the executive committee, as a member of the board of governors, I had a lot of contact with Tom, but not every member is going to have that level of contact and just to provide him the opportunity to interact with members at different levels because interacting with him on a business or bar association matter versus a happy hour or two different interactions and you learn new things about somebody in that.

And something else that I started my year, we had had previously a past president’s committee that had kind of gone dormant, so we sunsetted in, that’s part of our culture of change. We formed a committee on committee sections and divisions to look at what’s working and what’s not. But I created something called the past President Task Force, and the goal of it was to provide support to me, but also I was looking forward to Amy’s year and then now Dan’s year to not only give them a formalized structure to reach out to past presidents who are always willing to show up and help, but to also provide a sort of a knowledge base because Dave has a lot of knowledge in his brain from the past 30 years about relationships, connections, that some things, yes, he can transfer to Tom, but he can’t just download his brain. So the past present task force is also to not only support the president and they can shape it how they want, but also to help Tom to have a past, a way to reach out to the past presidents who are active in theBar association and get their input and ask questions if ever needed.

Amanda Arriaga:

I love that you created a brain trust so that the historical knowledge never goes away

Regina Wilson:

And everybody has a different perspective as we know. The way I view something is different how Amy or Dan would look at something. So it just provides a way that you could say, okay, have we faced this in the past? If so, and then everyone can give their input and then whoever needs that input can then make their decision from there.

Amanda Arriaga:

No, that’s great because not every bar gets to have the organizational transitions that you all are doing that’s well thought out. But every bar does have former leaders that could bring things to the table so they could use this model of a past president’s task force for any new idea or to figure out how things could work.

Regina Wilson:

Exactly. And I know the way I envision it could be different than the way Amy wants to use it this year, the way Dan might want to use it. And that’s the beauty of it, because it’s there, the structure is there, but however you want to deploy it might change presidency to presidency. And if we end up never using it, then it can be sunsetted just like it was created

Amanda Arriaga:

Or just make it a past president’s party.

Regina Wilson:

Exactly. I mean we do have one of those. We do have a lunch. So yes.

Amanda Arriaga:

So I see how you are getting the formal leaders involved. Amy, what is it like getting the current leaders on board, watching them, trying to navigate, making sure that they’re pointing their new questions to Tom instead of Dave?

Amy Coco:

So I get the benefit of having the best of both worlds because I will say Dave has really been intentional as to this transition of power, so to speak, and he’s put into place kind of steps that allow me to instead of always relying on him and Dave to move some of that to Tom. And Dave has said, and he warned us that at the start of my bar year, he was going to intentionally not sit next to the president anymore at the board meetings. He was going to let Tom sit next to the presidents and he was going to president and move down a seat or two so that when we’re running the meeting, when I’m running the meeting, it’s Tom sitting next to me to create that. We’re moving toward Tom. Are there any challenges? Well, change is always a challenge, but it really has been a gift for me to have Dave still here in this process while Tom steps in.

And any transition is going to come with that sort of question of who do I call first? And Dave’s been intentional about, well, why don’t you ask Tom? And I’ve been trying to be intentional to involve Tom in my questions and things I want done. I’m trying to go to him first. So I’m leading by example. I’m modeling the transition for the board, and when board members or members reach out to me, we had this issue recently in the ethics committee about something the ethics committee wants to do to focus leadership. I said, let’s reach out to Tom and talk to Tom about how we can set up an e community. So I’m trying to do that as well. And I really think because of the way the transition has been structured with small incremental steps, as Tom has learned the procedure, it’s introduced Tom incrementally to the board and to the members as well.

And I really haven’t seen any significant challenges mean it’s been an issue for me personally because I’ve served on the board for many years and kind of been with Dave through most of all of his executive directorship. So my natural reaction is when I have a question call Dave because he knows everything, but I’ve been having to temper myself and it’s been easy because Tom has been very receptive. Tom’s been, if I don’t know the answer, Amy, I’ll find it out for you and get back. And Tom’s reached out to me and What do you need, Amy? What can I do to help you implement your initiatives and your goals this year? So I think from the executive committee level and particularly from the presidential officers, we’re modeling how to handle a leadership change for the board and for our members. I mean, that’s our goal.

Amanda Arriaga:

So Tom, you’ve been now the gentleman and waiting for a while. What are you worried about, if anything, on July 1st, 2026?

Thomas Petropoulos:

I think the groups kind of hit the nail on the head. So my primary concern is balancing three key elements simultaneously, continuity, culture and change. And I want to preserve what has made this organization strong, ensure that our board and staff feel aligned and supported and at the same time kind of dare to innovate where our members need growth. And I think getting that balancing act right is really my top priority or my top concern. And it came up at the retreat and I think that it’s something that our leadership team will hear a lot is we’re not starting over, we’re building forward. And I think that when you come to an organization that has a rich history and is successful, it’s important to kind honor that legacy. But as you’re moving forward to be relevant to your members. And I think that what we’re all trying to do through this process is create harmony between the executive committee, the board of governors, the members, the staff, and myself as new leadership coming in.

And I will take a moment to touch on something that I think Dave said earlier and what I’ve found to be very truthful at our organization. Dave has always had an open door with me. He will always share his perspective and give me feedback. And the important change that I’ve experienced from the start of this process to where we’re at now is shifting the feedback, not just from Dave but from the executive committee and the board of governors. And I keep trying to remind everyone that I’m not a finished product, I’m still developing, I’m still learning. And I’ll be doing that throughout the rest of my career because I feel that innovation is important and I feel that you need the opportunity to be able to learn from your mistakes, but that can only happen if you’re getting that constant feedback and really remembering at the end of the day, it’s a member organization and it’s their organization. I’m just here to assist and guide and help them. So I see that as kind of what makes us unique and special.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, this feedback loop is impressive because not everyone likes feedback. Some people resist it. Some people might think, well, I’m in charge now, so you didn’t like it, but I can do whatever I want. And I have seen with you, you are very humble, very thoughtful, even when we just sit together and chat at dinner, willing to change and learn dances that you will be dancing soon when you come visit Texas, and I can’t wait for that. But I also love that in your top three, you have both continuity and change. Those are sort of at odds with each other, but both are important for an organization to grow and evolve. So I’m excited to continue to be your sister bar association and continue to watch what that looks like.

Thomas Petropoulos:

I appreciate it. And I do think you’re right, there is a delicate balancing act between continuity and change. But at our organization as we’re shifting leadership, we also shifted our association management software. We shifted our accounting software, two major projects within the one year, nine months that I’ve been here. We’re constantly looking at what we do and how we can do that better. And I think that’s good business and I think that’s important to associations. There’s this concept of we have the reserve for a rainy day, but we need to innovate and we try to innovate without resources. And sometimes I think you have to take a little bit of risk and use those resources to remain relevant. And as much as you want the business to stay in line and consistent in our culture to be consistent, our members are facing new opportunities that they might not previously faced a couple of years ago, let alone a couple months ago. And I think COVID really brought technology to the forefront of our industry. And I always like to think we are operating two different associations. We have an association for our emerging members and association for our experienced members and their needs and wants are different, but sometimes you can find common ground and technology seems to be one of those ways. And as everything kind of calmed down after COVID, we thought technology might pull back. And now everybody’s talking about artificial intelligence and what that means for the legal world. So it’s kind of interesting.

Amanda Arriaga:

Dan, you have been a part of this organization for a long time and are now going to step into the president role. Looking at your crystal ball, what do you think the biggest issues will be?

Daniel Fitzsimmons:

I think one thing you have to keep in mind is to expect the unexpected. As you mentioned, I have been involved for a very long time in theBar association. I believe I’ve served four terms on the board and one as the treasurer. So I’ve seen many things, many unexpected things happen. I believe I’ve served under 12 different presidents over the years, but the organization is capable of handling that. I think AI is for sure something that’s going to be a very interesting thing developing in the next several years in our community, at the state level, at the local level, things are really pretty stable. But on a national level, that doesn’t soon to be the case. So I mean, there are going to be things that come up whether state or local or maybe for sure on the federal level that we’re going to have to cope with. And that’s very unpredictable, I think.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, it’s good that y’all already have the idea to expect the unexpected because it’s coming.

Daniel Fitzsimmons:

And I think I have some advantages that many people maybe don’t have to step into this role, not just the continuity that I have as a member of the board for many years, but I worked as a county prosecutor trying some pretty high level cases for many, many years, almost 40 years. And I can think on my feet, I can handle a crisis because they come up all the time in that profession. And I think I’m a good listener too. I mean, lawyers love to talk. I’m sure we all know that. But I also have a very good capacity to listen and absorb and consider the opinions and the views of others.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, I think this new team of you and Tom will be a great balance to see what happens as we go into maybe an uncertain future, but to have the two of you together being the stability holding down the fort, well then he gets to be the lead on anything AI or chatbot. So Dave, since you have seen everything over the course of many years, what were the major issues that affected bar leaders throughout your tenure?

Dave Blaner:

Probably the number one thing that I can spot and say that COVID was probably the most difficult thing for the board and the officers to deal with. There was no playbook as to how to deal with that. Our state Pennsylvania shut things down on, I think it was March 13th or March 16th, and basically said everybody’s going to work remotely or figure it out. And I had been fortunate that the a b sent me to New Orleans after Katrina. I came in there with a small group of five bar execs to reestablish the New Orleans Bar Association. And I learned from that disaster, natural disaster hurricane that there were ways to create community and keep the attorneys organized, keep communication established. So that was kind of the blueprint I used to ensure that we kept things together. So I’d say that’s first. Second, I think now it seems like the members in the community expect bar associations to take positions and make statements on issues.

And that’s relatively a new phenomenon. And I think that boards in general and officers, we all as organizations struggle with that. When should we say something? When shouldn’t we say something? What’s the right thing to say? Do we say it to just our members? Do we make it to our community, to the public? So I think those two particular instances showed me that those are top areas for boards and administrations to have to be on the same page and to work through. And I think they’re difficult. Both of them were extremely different in issues and problem. And I think even Amy and Regina, Dan would note that when we’re asked to make a statement or do we think we should make a statement that takes a lot of effort, that takes a lot of vision, that takes a lot of thought, that takes a lot of input from a lot of various parties, just not the five officers that serve on the executive committee. And I think to get it right, you don’t knee jerk it. You have to take the time, you have to have input, you have to think before you speak. So I think those are two extreme examples, but I think in both cases we’ve handled those pretty well. There’s always room for improvement always. But I think those are the two areas that I would say that I’ve seen in my tenure that have been difficult for our boards.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, and I’m guessing both of those issues have big member impacts because even today I’m sure that you have members that say, well, since COVID, we could have done all CE on Zoom. Do I really have to go to the CE? Can’t I watch it from the office? Do I really want to go to bench Bar? Can I just stream it in? So we like to say COVID is over, but that mentality that we got of I don’t have to leave my house, I think’s still there for some of us in our members.

Dave Blaner:

And it presents a challenge because you initially built everything to be in person, right up to COVID, everything was in person. And we were giving ourselves some strategic visions of, and this was before COVID, we’re going to build our bar center. We renovated it, and we were going to put all the technology in so that our members could participate remotely from the suburbs. And that was really the vision. And they might take a few CLEs online, but it wasn’t going to be a full delivery model. But then again, COVID changed it. We were fortunate that what we had envisioned is a kind of small fix or a small member benefit ended up being the lifeboat that we all used and we turned it on a dime. Were we lucky? I would say yes, we were lucky that we put ourselves in that position, but on the other hand, we had thought about it and we had put the money aside to make these things happen.

It just so happened that everything was done prior to COVID, so we could switch gears pretty quickly. So we were good at that nature. But I think when it comes to this issue of making statements, I think we’re still learning. I think the officers and the board all have different visions as to what to say, when to say it. But I think we came out of a board retreat with a pretty strong clear direction on the rule of law in the independence of the judiciary, that the board is unified behind our position that we will comment if any of our members, any of our law firms are impacted on issues relating to the rule of law, and we will stand up for the members of our courts on any issues regarding the independence of the judiciary. It was very loud and clear, right, Amy? I mean, I think it was a huge consensus from people around the table. We were discussing that at our most recent retreat

Amy Coco:

And more so there’s a desire to also educate both internally to our members and externally, what does it mean to defend the rule of law? Why is it important? And those kinds of issues moving forward to give our members talking points on what is the rule of law and why is it important when they’re talking to their clients, community members and to help them educate the public.

Amanda Arriaga:

And that really is an issue that is impacting every Bar association. Everyone’s talking about it because even if you have a benign statement, you could alienate some of your members. And so it could be that we put out a statement that the sky is blue and one of your members says, not in my house. My sky is gray. Regina, go ahead.

Regina Wilson:

Well, I was going to go back to the COVID piece and then tie it to our retreats because we had, I think Dave, correct me, we were supposed to have a retreat in 2020 and then it got moved to 21. And so that retreat focused on how do we open theBar back up again? How do we bring members and do it in a safe manner? And we made, and to your point, people weren’t happy. We had a vaccination mandate or a testing mandate. There was to come to certain events and the board came together to discuss that, and there was a robust discussion around that. And then at the next retreat would’ve been in 23 having seen how we’d opened back up and done it to the best of our ability in a safe way. How do we reengage our members and how do we meet them where they are?

And so we have some committees they meet and they’re mostly on Zoom. There might be one person or two people at our headquarters attending the meeting in person. And then you have other committees or sections and divisions who are just the opposite. Most of their people come in person. And so it has been finding that balance, but it goes back, I think, to our culture and our community that we’ve been able to build and then to our planning. So even though it might seem as though it was smooth, there was a lot of discussion and a lot of planning. And to Dave’s point previously when something didn’t work, we pivoted and said, okay, then let’s try this and let’s see if that works. And I think that’s helped us bring back, we had between the president before me and my year, our number of events almost doubled and now we’re back. But that doesn’t mean that we’re still not doing CLEs that are all online or that we’re not having meetings where most of the people attending aren’t on Zoom from the comfort of their home because I am somebody who works a hundred percent remote. So I understand the benefits of both worlds

Dave Blaner:

And our bench bar, you mentioned that. So we’ve had one for 61 years, it’d be 62 coming up this year, and we’re getting huge attendance numbers. The US Open was held in Pittsburgh last year for those of you our listeners or callers. So we had about a hundred members that didn’t attend our bench bar. So we had 550 attend that. We’re expecting probably 6 50, 700 this year back to up our regular numbers. So people want to meet in person, they want to have that opportunity to meet with the members of the judiciary. They want to attend these substantive law programs and get free CLE credits as part of it attorneys and their clients. When you strip away all the technology and everything else, it’s about people communicating with one another to solve their problems. And I think a benchmark conference that’s held in person does just that allows judges and attorneys to come together and talk about common problems and issues that they’re experiencing amongst each other or our members talking about issues that they’re having, maybe when they’re dealing with another attorney on another case or dealing with a contractual dispute. And I think we just give people that opportunity and the opportunity to network, get together, have a little social interaction, and I think it just works. Technology has its place, but I think when you strip a lot of that away, it just gets down to people communicating and trying to get together to solve problems. And we give our members that opportunity.

Amanda Arriaga:

When COVID hit, we were actively in Austin planning for our benchmark conference. We didn’t know what to do. We wanted to do something virtual but didn’t want to cannibalize it. So we created the one and only Couch Bar program, and we got all new presentations from all new speakers. The animal law section invited everyone to have their animals in the frame with them while they were doing their part of the ceiling. And I have to say, couch Bar was actually just as fun as Benchmark. We didn’t bring that back, but it was fun to see. It was the first time you saw people’s actual backgrounds of their house. We ended with a live recording of a podcast and judges making drinks for us virtually that we could make at home. So there is an important time to pivot, but I agree with you. It’s also important to now be able to see each other in person again. So for any of y’all, what advice do you have for bar leaders anticipating a major organizational change?

Daniel Fitzsimmons:

I’ll take that one. The success of our transition was giving it plenty of time. I believe three or four years out, the board started planning on how we’re going to handle that transition. Tom was brought on about 30 months ago, or maybe my figures off there, but there’s been a healthy transitional period. I think that’s probably one of the most critical considerations.

Dave Blaner:

Yeah, I would agree with that. Having done it and been through it, I don’t care how good of a bar exec you are. If you took me out and took me to Texas and put me in a bar association in Texas, it has a different culture as a different way of doing things. And you have to go in and you have to absorb that. As I said, I was a city manager. I served in three different cities in Western Pennsylvania. Every time I went into a different city, it took me six months to eight months to understand how that city operated. And even though they all do the same things, right, police, fire parks and recreation governance issues, each one of them had a different culture. Each of ’em had a different budget style. And what I learned from that is don’t make quick early decisions.

Wait, see how things work? Give it some time. And I think that’s what I’ve tried to do here with this transition is ensure that Tom has an opportunity to really see things before making changes, absorb what we’re doing, understand culturally what we do, understand how the employees function, and then you can kind of plot a strategy. And I think when that happens, I think you’re more successful. At least that’s my perspective, is you’re more successful because people have buy-in, that you’re not just coming in to make change for change’s sake. You’re coming in to make change where it really needs to occur. And in most cases, those are subtle, minor changes that you need to make in order to make the organization better.

Thomas Petropoulos:

I think I would steal some of your advice too. On day one, Dave said, through this process, we’re going to teach you one, we’re going to show it to you, we’re going to have you do it, and then we’re going to have you teach it. And I think that that’s been true through the whole entire process. But also too, sometimes you need to take a step back and slow down decision making and getting different perspectives because somebody might look at a problem differently than you’ll look at it and they’ll see pitfalls that you’re not even thinking about. So I think some of it too is just taking a step back, having a little bit of grace, getting other perspectives, and then making a decision. And I think Dave said it right, you don’t want to knee jerk anything big because you’re going to have big consequences, but if you slow it down and you really get other and perspectives, it makes it easier to face hard decisions or figure a path forward

Amy Coco:

Along those same lines. And actually it plays well. I think a successful transition isn’t just about the logistics that we put into place, but you have to keep in mind it’s also about the people. You want to make sure there’s trust and communication and clarity among the outgoing, the incoming, and the current leadership so that we’re all on the same page and remind our members and our board. That transition isn’t really about personalities and not specifically the personalities of the people. It’s about strengthening and sustaining and keeping consistent on the organization’s mission. And as long as you’re tying it back to that, you’ll be successful.

Regina Wilson:

I would just build off of that and just say that it is important that there is a team effort that you do want to build consensus. And even within, for example, I would say that our executive committee has made it a goal to support Tom to work with Tom. And so even though there might be different viewpoints and disagreements amongst the team, there is a united front and that you are staying on top of what’s going on. And to Amy’s point, talking to the members, I say keep your finger on the pulse of things so that should there be questions, you can sort of just not stop it in the tracks, but to also address any concerns that might be coming up. But it’s important to have a united front and to get on the same page during a transition. Not that everyone is in lockstep all the time, but it’s important for the membership and for the greater community that there is a united front.

Amanda Arriaga:

And it seems like that’s important no matter how much time you have, right? Not everyone gets a 30 month tail to plan. So if there is a crisis in your bar and you only have one week, there is still time for your leaders to get together and make a thoughtful decision in that week, even if it’s going to change course slightly six months from then. But if you have your continuity culture change idea and the idea that we’re doing what’s best for the members, for the community, there is always a time to be able to do that no matter how much time it is, rather than one person making a knee-jerk reaction by themselves.

Amy Coco:

Agreed.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, I just want to say thank you again to the leaders of Allegheny County for sharing your best practices with our audience. We appreciate you. I’m excited personally to see y’all soon in San Antonio at the next A, BA and NCBP meeting. And we hope that y’all join us for the next episode of Leading theBar.

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