Niche Marketing, a Podcast About Marketing Through Podcasting

Episode Notes

Transcript

Announcer:

Managing your law practice can be challenging, marketing, time management, attracting clients, and all the things besides the cases that you need to do that aren’t billable. Welcome to this edition of the Unbillable Hour, the Law Practice Advisory podcast. This is where you’ll get the information you need from expert guests and host Christopher Anderson here on Legal Talk Network.

Christopher T. Anderson:

Welcome to The Un-Billable Hour. I am your host, Christopher Anderson. And today’s episode is about marketing, particularly though about a niche of marketing that has been growing in popularity and effectiveness. And our guest today is going to really talk about why it can be effective for many, many of our listeners. And that, of course is podcasting. Everybody will remember in the mean triangle of what it is that a law firm business must do. We’ve got to acquire new clients, and that’s what we’re talking about today, acquisition, marketing, being a part of that. We’ve got to produce then the results that we promise, we call it production. And finally, we’ve got to achieve the business and professional results for the owners because otherwise, why are we doing this right in the center of the triangle? Driving it all for better or worse is you are wonderful listeners. And it does. I got to admit, it feels a little bit meta today to be making an episode of this podcast about podcasting, and I’m rarely worried that I’m going to learn things that tell us about how I’ve been doing it all wrong for, are you ready, Carrolee, our 200th episode.

Carrolee Moore:

Yay. Amazing. Congratulations.

Christopher T. Anderson:

Thank you. But yeah, it feels a bit meta to be talking about this, the podcasting on the podcast, but what the listeners need to know is it’s marketing opportunity that could really help them expand their market presence and diversify their outreach. And I find what I find among our listeners and those of my listeners that have become clients is that a lot of them have all their marketing eggs in one basket or very predominantly in one basket. And so any opportunity to expand that, it’s really, really helpful. So I’ve already kind of teased it. My guest today is Carlee Moore. Carlee is an entrepreneur, she’s a speaker and is now the founder of the podcast Pitching Society. She helps overlook experts and we’re going to talk about what she means by that, get paid for what they know, not just what they do. She does this through high impact podcast placements and long-term visibility strategies after being laid off in 2020 as many were. And moving across the country, she launched her first business from an air mattress in an empty apartment and transformed that what she describes as a rock bottom moment into a successful agency in under two years without ads, without SEO, without social media marketing. So she’s created the currency of visibility movement and we’ll talk about that and also is the visionary behind the cake, that’s CA ke podcast guesting method, helping founders turn podcast interviews into content and more importantly maybe into contracts. So Carrolee, with that introduction, welcome to the show.

Carrolee Moore:

Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction.

Christopher T. Anderson:

Not at all. Not at all. And my introductions are always a little bit wanting, so we’re going to start there. It’s a teaser after being laid off in 2020, moving cross country air mattress, empty apartment. But why this, I mean, of all the things that you could have done to relaunch after the layoff, why this business? Just talk to us a little bit about what led you here.

Carrolee Moore:

Sure. So I mean, I always start the story off by saying I have been a storyteller for most of my life. It seeped into my culture. I’m actually Jamaican and being born and raised there during a time where there wasn’t really a lot of TV happening, we had two stations. And so there was still a lot of family time where we’d sit around and just tell stories. I was never the one telling the stories. I was too young, but it fascinated me. And when I moved to the United States to get myself a bit more ingratiated into the culture, that’s exactly what I connected to were different forms of storytelling. So tv, music, anything that could get me an understanding of how this culture worked is what I gravitated toward. And so in college, same thing went into media studies. This has been the through line and I’ve done a lot of different things through my career.

I’ve been in sales, I’ve been marketing, I’ve worked in higher education at MIT, I’ve worked in high functioning and sometimes also high functioning public policy agencies. My career has been kind of crazy, but the through line has been storytelling. And so when I launched my first business, that was a kind of traditional marketing agency where we did branding and websites and all the things still storytelling. What I noticed though is a lot of business owners, they wanted the logo but didn’t really understand brand messaging. They didn’t really understand the story behind it, and so they just wanted a pretty logo. And I found myself educating people as we were going through this can feel transactional relationship. And so when I closed that agency down and decided to start another business that felt more aligned with who I wanted to be and the impact I wanted to make, I didn’t want to feel like a vendor. I wanted to feel like a partner. And in thinking about who I wanted to serve goes back to this kind of underrepresented and what I call underestimated group. These are the folks that have been doing the work, they have all the credentials, they’ve been underground, if you will, for the last 10, 15, 20, even 25 years. And they are now kind of realizing, listen, I want to be known for my ideas.

Christopher T. Anderson:

Or maybe they’re not even realizing it yet. Right, true. So I think that there’s a real, and the term that I saw in your notes prior, we actually overlooked experts.

Carrolee Moore:

Yes.

Christopher T. Anderson:

So let’s talk, I really like to talk about that for a sec because our listeners are typically, they’re law firm owners or lawyers working in a law firm. Most of them, most of our listeners are not new by any stretch of the imagination to the practice. So they have developed an expertise. So knowing that about them and knowing your clients, can you just talk a little bit more about what you mean by overlooked experts and how they might identify themselves as such?

Carrolee Moore:

I believe if you’ve ever looked at a quote competitor and basically say, this person, I have more expertise in my pinky tail than this person does, but here they are getting paid 25 30 k to speak at a conference here. They’re on popular podcasts. I’m seeing these people kind of blow up, and I know that I’m more qualified to be in some of these spaces, but I just don’t have the visibility. People don’t know that I know what I know, they don’t know me yet, and I say the yet piece because yeah, there are people who are, they’re totally fine being in their cubicle, in their office, in their box that they’ve created for their career. I’m not speaking to those people. I’m speaking to the folks who have something inside of them that says, listen, I know that I want more than what I’m able to get right now. Whether that’s revenue or visibility as a thought leader, not someone who’s just practicing law, I have something to say. I have a perspective that is unique or different or counters what the status quo or the kind of usual ideas around whatever my area of practice is. Do you get what I’m saying?

Christopher T. Anderson:

Yeah.

Carrolee Moore:

Those are the overlooked folks.

Christopher T. Anderson:

That makes a lot of sense. I think that’ll resonate with a lot of our listeners and maybe some not, but I think it will. Did you see yourself as fitting this avatar

Carrolee Moore:

A thousand percent. I think that’s why it was so natural for me to slide into that. Like I said, these are the folks, and I am, for all intents and purposes, I would say overeducated one and a half masters. I didn’t finish my second one. Long story, really highly pedigreed great schools, all the things, years and years of experience your stuff, but you’re seeing people who are just graduated from college or in your case just graduated from law school and they’re already famous on social media. It’s like you have it even you barely passed theBar and here you are kind of being the go-to person in whatever field that is.

Christopher T. Anderson:

Alright, so let’s hit on that though. I mean this one really, I’ve just mentioned at the beginning, right? This is our 200th podcast. We’ve been doing this for over a decade now. I see it and you’re mentioning it, that just people out podcasts are exploding. They’re all over the place. And so if everybody’s putting themselves out there who’s not an expert as an expert, how do you help people actually get their head above that noise?

Carrolee Moore:

Here’s the thing, okay, so there’s two pieces of this. The first piece I’m going to tell you why I love podcasts in general and why every single attorney that’s listening right now needs to be on podcasts. It is one of the few verticals and marketing where you really can’t BS your way through it. You can use chat GPT to make a reel, and if you have the personality to deliver that thing in 30 seconds or a minute, you can totally do that. It is difficult, especially if you’re going on a podcast with a host that kind of knows their stuff. It’s hard to be us your way through 45 minutes. It’s really

Christopher T. Anderson:

Hard.

Carrolee Moore:

And so that’s one piece. The second piece is expertise is shown through actual stories and examples, tangible examples of, I remember doing this, this, and because of my expertise and what I brought to the problem, these were the results. So we actually train our experts, our clients to approach their podcast experiences in that way where you are leading with your experience.

Christopher T. Anderson:

And

Carrolee Moore:

If you only have a year in practicing law, you have anecdotal experiences. You have what everyone else out there has said, books that you have read with someone who has 10 to 15 to 20 years of experience for you who have been in podcasting for 10 years. You have what a lot of these kind of newer podcast folks don’t have. You have stories and they’re powerful. When you have someone like me who can help you to tell them in a way that will cut through, it’s not boring. It’s not like, okay, that was 10 minute answer and I lost the gist here. When you’re able to do that in a way that really gets people to understand, okay, not only you’re an expert, but I like you, you know what I mean? Those are the things that kind of builds trust. And I’m hitting into the currency of visibility because my argument is that the currency of visibility is not attention. It is trust.

Christopher T. Anderson:

Excellent. I love that. And that leaves us a perfect moment to trust a couple of folks who make this show possible by going and listening to their segments right here, their sponsors who will come on and tell our listeners a little bit about their stuff. And we’re going to come back and we’re going to get to the currency visibility because I really love that concept. But when we come back, the first question we’re going to talk about is what most experts are doing wrong, and then we’ll go into the cake framework and all that other stuff. But we are with Carol Lee Moore, and we’ll be back right after these messages. We are back with Carol Lee Moore, she’s the founder of the podcast Pitching Society, and we have been talking about podcasts and really more about overlooked experts and how to start to think about yourself as someone who gets paid for what they know instead of what they do. And I think that’s a really powerful pivot in mindset. Hanging onto that notion for a moment, you’ve said that it’s about not about doing more, that being visible, getting to visibility is not about doing more, but about doing the right things. And a lot of experts, if not most experts are not. So can you talk a little bit about that?

Carrolee Moore:

Absolutely. So if I’m going to be honest with you, and I’m always going to be honest with you,

Christopher T. Anderson:

Good.

Carrolee Moore:

If you’re listening to this right now, I want you to stop what you’re doing. If you’re walking, this is the part of the interview that you pay the most attention to because I’m going to tell you what a lot of marketers don’t tell you. So right now, for whatever reason, we have fooled experts into believing they have to be become influencers online in order to make impact, you’re getting advice and you’re using advice that’s actually built for content creators, people who are paid just to create content. You’re trying to follow a playbook that is not for you,

And that is honestly one of the biggest roadblocks that I see a lot of experts facing. And they’re getting frustrated because it’s kind of like, okay, I’m posting all this content that you told me I need to post. I’m doing all of the things and I’m still not seeing any growth. And the reality is, like I said, when it comes to the currency of visibility, this idea of building trust as a service-based business, there’s a different way that you build trust. It is not the TikTok dancing whatever. And again, can you get one off clients from those situations? Absolutely. But if we’re in a business of working smarter and not just working harder, that is not the route that you need to be taking. If you’ve been TikTok dancing, I’m not coming against you, I’m just, it’s time to do something different. It’s time to do something that’s actually going to kind of cut through and get to that trust piece faster. This is why I talk so much about podcast guesting.

Christopher T. Anderson:

If

Carrolee Moore:

You’re able to get in front of your ideal clients because you have done your due diligence and know who the audience is for the particular podcast you’re going on, not just saying yes to every invite that you get.

If you’re able to do that, then you can speak to your expertise. You can bring all of yourself, your story, how you got into law, the reasons why you care about the particular law practice that you’re doing right now. Those are the things that are actually going to get people to be like, wow, yeah, I want that person defending me. I want that person to kind of go into this really weird situation that I have that I didn’t even know that I needed help with. Those are the areas where you can of come in, and I think people are not thinking outside of the box. Blogging is not dead. So as an attorney, if you are blogging, say for instance, you want to target a particular type of business coaches, physicians, however you want to do that, then you’re starting your blog. By the way, if you connect that with podcast, guesting is incredible because if you are blogging and taking snippets from your interviews where you’re answering questions, kind of like how Christopher’s giving me questions now that a lot of my prospective clients will ask me, I can put those clips into a blog post where I’m also now going even deeper into the particular subject. These are things that you can do right now. LinkedIn actually creating and using your LinkedIn, using the articles on LinkedIn is probably around one to 2% of people who are on LinkedIn actually post articles, which means every single one that you post it actually has more licks.

Same thing in using your podcast visuals, putting that on social media instead of trying to come up with really clever 32nd reels, you can just take it from a real conversation that you’ve already had. So there are just ways that you can do things smarter and not try to follow trends or creators that are literally creating, because that is their job. That is not your job. You’re a business owner, you have things to do outside of dancing on TikTok.

Christopher T. Anderson:

That’s fascinating. I mean, I think that is really, really a different way of conceiving how to approach doing this. And probably what’s, to me actually, I think for our listeners really powerful is that it’s more approachable. Most of my listeners don’t really want to do a dancing TikTok and some of them that don’t mind doing it probably shouldn’t, but this is a lot, this fits. You know what? It sounds like it’s authentic that actually you’re asking people to do what you’re suggesting that people do is just lean into who they really are and what they really love to do. And I’m not saying let’s get some authenticity going. I’m just saying it is authentic, right? It’s not fake authentic, and I like that. So let’s talk about this cake framework, CAKE. What is it? What is it and how is it important and relevant to this?

Carrolee Moore:

Absolutely. So it’s the journey that we take our clients through. The C is crafting your offer or your ask. So pitching, right, creating a pitch that is again, authentic and it’s not regurgitating. And if I’m being honest, and Christopher, you can vouch for this, I pitched you. No one really wants to know your entire bio, all the things that you’ve done. I hate to break it to you. There are a lot of really impressive people in the world. There are a lot of people that went to the best colleges that did all the things. That’s not really what’s going to get you on a really solid podcast like this one. It’s going to be your story again, how you kind of frame what is it that you want to talk about that is not typical. And a lot of times you’ll find that in your own life journey, and that’s really what people want to hear. So that’s the first piece, making sure that you’re actually sending out pitches that are reflective of a stance. I always tell people, and I actually got into, it wasn’t a thing, but she disagreed with me on a podcast. It was a podcast host who didn’t agree with this statement I’m about to make

Christopher T. Anderson:

Okay

Carrolee Moore:

The statement,

Christopher T. Anderson:

I’ll try to not disagree, but if I do disagree, I’m going to let our listeners know. So go for it.

Carrolee Moore:

Sure. My statement is, in the world that we live in right now, whether we like it or not, there really is not space for gray area. You will get drowned out if you sit in the middle and try to be agreeable to, okay, I don’t want to pick a side, right? All the things are good. We are looking for people who are going to stand 10 toes down on what they believe specifically. Again, rubbing against maybe what has been traditionally believed, someone coming in saying, Hey, I know that we have been told for the last 20 years that this is the thing. Actually this is the thing, and I’m going to prove it to you. We have grown into a society where that messaging is cutting through way more than someone who is just simply trying to be in the middle. And so a lot of times when we create and craft and send out pitches, we’re not sticking 10 toes down on a particular thing.

We’re just sending information. I’m sending you my name, I’m sending you my business name, I’m sending you the things that I’ve done. These are all kind of facts. I’m not saying, Hey, I really don’t like social media as a general rule, anti-social media. I see it as a necessary, and I do mean this evil, and I use it as a tool in my business. And because I do that and because of my perspective for that, my approach is going to be very much in utilizing your voice in different ways in order to get the same level of visibility that you would get from social media. That is an angle. And a lot of people try to shy away from that when they’re pitching, and you should not.

Christopher T. Anderson:

I completely disagree, and I’m going to stand now. I think that’s an amazing message. And what I’m trying to think though is we started the conversation about experts, but what you’re really saying is how to find that contrarian position, how to find

Announcer:

That thing where

Christopher T. Anderson:

You’re not in complete alignment with the rest of the market, and that you’re willing to take a stand on and then make that your message.

Carrolee Moore:

And by the way, that is scary.

Christopher T. Anderson:

I’m

Carrolee Moore:

Not telling you that it’s easy, it is scary, and that’s why people are getting rewarded for it because it’s not the thing that everyone is willing or wanting to do. But if you’re wanting to be a thought leader, and I think a lot of people slap that title on themselves, but if you’re wanting to be a real thought leader, a part of that is being contrarian. A part of that is kind of separating yourself from the rest of the flock, if you will.

Christopher T. Anderson:

I think that’s amazing. Alright, that’s

Go. Yeah. Before we go to a break, I’ve got listeners here who I know they’re listening this, they’re like, yeah, but that is scary. And I don’t want to say that’s not authentic, but it’s not me because I work behind the scenes. My clients come to me, they bring their problems, I fix their problems, they pay me. And I’m not usually out there. I’m not a talking head. I’m not on C Nnn, I’m not on Fox, I’m not on all the local news, whatever it is, talking about all this stuff. That’s not me. I’m not a front man. What do you say to those folks, people who are used to being behind the scenes, how does this relevant for

Carrolee Moore:

Them? Yeah, I’ve said those exact words multiple times for over a decade. What changed for me and what will change for you is that I shifted my perspective and stopped making it about myself. If you truly care about the people that you believe you’re called to serve, then you will get out of your own way. If you really believe, and you didn’t go through all of that studying to get your degree and go, you didn’t do all that to not make an impact, you didn’t become an attorney to not make an impact. And in order to do that, your voice needs to be heard and you have to believe that your voice matters. And the only way to do that is to open up your mouth and speak.

Christopher T. Anderson:

The powerful part of what you just said was that it, it’s not about you,

Carrolee Moore:

It’s not.

Christopher T. Anderson:

So that probably makes it easier in a way, right,

Carrolee Moore:

When you’re serving.

Christopher T. Anderson:

Yeah, yeah. This about serving an ideal, an idea, a priority, something you think needs to be changed in the world.

Carrolee Moore:

Absolutely.

Christopher T. Anderson:

And that’s powerful. Alright,

When we come back, because we’re going to go away one more time when we come back, we’re going to shift our conversation a little bit about what this is as far as how this can benefit our listeners’ businesses. It sounds great. I remember when this podcast got started all those years ago, my wonderful VP of marketing came to me and said, listen, I’ve got an idea. It’s not going to make you rich, but I’m going to make you famous. That’s what she said. I said, okay, let’s do it. Now, I don’t know if that worked, but I’ve been doing it and we get our message out, but I want to talk to you about how this serves the business. Is it a sales strategy? Talk about ROIA little bit when we return first a little word from our sponsors, then we’ll be back with Carol Lee Moore, the CEO and founder of the podcast Pitching Society.

We’ll be back in a moment. We are back with Carol Lee Moore, founder of the podcast Pitching Society, and we’ve been talking about podcasting, but really in all honesty, it’s really been a metaphor, right? We’ve been talking about how to get your voice heard and today that might be podcasting, but I think the mindset shift your talking about is relevant for talking on stages, talking to individuals, whatever, wherever you happen to be, wherever you happen to be, putting your message out, this seems powerful for all those things. What I teased for this segment before we went out was that it’s not just about talking, and you’ve said a couple times, it’s not just about creating content. Is this helpful for sales? Does this have a return on the investment of time, energy, whatever it takes to do? How does this serve the businesses?

Carrolee Moore:

So I have a few different ways. So I’m going to continue with the cake method because I think it’s important, and as I’m going through, I’ll actually address what you’re saying. The A stands for appearing live.

Christopher T. Anderson:

Just remind everybody what was the c.

Carrolee Moore:

C is crafting pitch,

Christopher T. Anderson:

Right? Okay.

Carrolee Moore:

Say for instance, you craft a pitch, you send it out, someone says yes, and now you’re going to appear on that podcast. What we actually do for our clients that I believe is our unique sauce is we train our experts on how to use strategic storytelling to actually gain leads from these interviews. So it is not you going on and just having a conversation or just talking about your expertise and geeking out, which is fantastic. And honestly, what a lot of experts do when they go on podcasts, they want you to know, I know all this stuff. That’s great. What happens a lot of times with our prospects is they’re waiting for the what’s in it for me part. And a lot of times we starve them of that because we don’t answer that question, especially not immediately. And so when it comes to pairing live, we actually do, a lot of, my background is in sales as well as marketing.

I worked a lot of times in corporate relations, selling partnerships, et cetera. So a huge part of why our clients are a bit more successful when it comes to podcast guesting than others is because you are being trained to see this opportunity less so as a nice to have or just a way to have a conversation and more so in, yes, I’m talking to the host, yes, I want them to like me. Yes, I want to give them a good show, but a part of giving them a good show is making sure that the folks that are listening to the podcast are getting all of the things. They’re getting ways to help them in that moment. So you’re giving them little tidbits, but you’re also seeding your offer throughout the entire interview. And so we teach you how to do that. What has happened, because of these training sessions that I do with our clients two to three times a month before they go on these podcasts, is multiple five figure contracts that are tied directly to specific podcast appearances for some of our clients, for our clients that have books, they’ve seen a uptick.

And because we track it with unique links,

Christopher T. Anderson:

They

Carrolee Moore:

Can track and say, okay, these book sales came directly from these links. We know that book sales are coming up. What’s really awesome too is we have some speakers who not only get speaking engagements and they start at five figures. They’re getting book sales on the backend of those speaking engagements. And so there is so much money there because unlike a social media situation where if we’re being honest about ourselves, I don’t go on social media looking like, let me see who has a solution to solve my problems today. No, I’m probably going to look on cat videos random, you know what I mean, to be entertained, which is why you see people having to move toward the dancing TikTok video types. But when we’re listening to podcasts, we select what podcast episode we want to listen to, and so they’re already problem aware, and all you have to do in the 45 minutes is convince them not only that they have a problem, problem aware, but that you are that solution to said problem.

And that’s where the appearing live goes. The knowing the K is kind of knowing your offer. A lot of times people go on podcasts and the offer that they have at the end of it is, follow me on social media, which is like, okay, waste of an opportunity. Again, what we train and coach our clients on is creating a freebie that does two things. It can do one or the other, but if it does both, it’s great. It either allows them to self-select into, again, we go to knowing that you have a problem. So if it’s a checklist to say, okay, if you checked four of the five of these, you need some legal help. If you checked the four of the five of these, this is what this means. And with the results, you as the business owner now understand where this person sits. And so you can call them, you can email them with a customized plan to solve whatever their problem

Christopher T. Anderson:

Is.

Carrolee Moore:

And then the other piece of it is you can use as we do, and you’ll see the freebie at the end of this, is a email course. You can use something that actually allows you to nurture the relationship with that particular prospect to where they’re getting into your world, and you get to nurture them into perpetuity until they either tell you to leave them alone or they get on your calendar. Those are the really good ones. And then the last one is really going and executing your content plan because 10%, and Chris, I don’t know if you know this, Christopher, I dunno if you know this 10%, only 10% of the people that go on podcasts actually do content promotion after,

Christopher T. Anderson:

Right? Yeah, I do know that because some of our guests don’t. So yeah, that’s absolutely true.

Carrolee Moore:

If you are able to just simply not be, I hate to say it mediocre. If you’re able to just say, okay, I’m going to at least do two to three posts reels from my podcast interviews on social media and tag the host, tag their podcast, the amount of goodwill and also just traction, especially if it’s what I call a sched podcast, one that has dedicated followers, et cetera, you’re able to do that. One of the pieces too that I think that wraps up the cake method, it’s all about intentionality, is what you do after. One of the, that I think people forget is that the podcast host is likely a business owner as well, or someone who has their goals as well. And if you can help them with those goals, it’s going to actually work out really well for you. Meaning as they’re posting and promoting the show on their socials, you should be in those comments or your assistant should be in those comments.

Someone from your team should be in those comments connecting with the people that are watching the show, that are commenting on your episode, et cetera. I’m going to be honest, I actually got a sales call from someone who commented on a podcast appearance that I did on that show’s social media. I dmd the person and was like, Hey, thank you so much for watching. What was your favorite part? And we just started having a conversation and then I booked a sales call with her. It is not hard, it’s just it’s intention and it’s doing the things that people aren’t willing to do, but would you rather do that kind of activity versus trying to figure out how to make Instagram work?

Christopher T. Anderson:

Right? No, no, no. That makes such sense and the smart things. But you said it’s not hard. It’s not easy to do all those things, but if you have a plan around it and you say, if I’m going to invest the time on being on this podcast, I’m going to do these things, otherwise why am I doing it? Really? Unless it’s an ego trip,

Carrolee Moore:

I want to push on a little bit because I do hear folks, and this is why we made our service done for you, because I know that people are like, listen, you do it, do all the things. And we’re like, okay, cool. But if you’re not there, if you’re not at the place where you’re wanting to actually hire out help to do all the things for you, I want you to reframe this idea of hard because trying to grow a business and not being visible is hard. Not having a pipeline because nobody knows what you do or that you exist is hard. Trying to grow on social media with just posting content haphazardly is hard. I always say, choose your heart.

Christopher T. Anderson:

That’s really, really powerful.

Carrolee Moore:

A lot of times we will have this idea in our head, oh, that’s hard. I can’t do that. Well, the thing that you’re doing right now is actually not working. It is making you miserable. Choose your heart.

Christopher T. Anderson:

Yeah, that’s really powerful. There’s a quote that I use a lot in talking with my clients. It’s from a book called Keep the Main Thing. The main thing I think is the name of the book, Aaron Street, I think. But the quote is, what is the thing? You can do that by doing it really, really well, makes everything else easier or unnecessary. And this sounds like one of those things, right? If you say choose your heart, well, when you choose your heart, you’re making everything else easier, and that is a great place for us to leave the podcast. So tell us about how folks, we just teased some of this stuff, so how can folks get and be in touch with you and sounded like you might have an offer for them.

Carrolee Moore:

I do

Practice what I preach. That’s the one thing I want to make sure I’m always doing. So we do have a four week self-guided course. It’s an email course, and like I said, you’re kind of taking yourself through it. We walk you through the cake method for the most part, and so you’re able to really dive in. I am a teacher at heart, so there are some questions in there that you are able to ask yourself some activities in there that will help you train yourself on how to be a better guest, all of those things. And so it’s really awesome. It is free. You can actually respond and I will, I’ll talk to you. Awesome. How do they get to it? Yeah. And then for social media, I’m on LinkedIn mostly Car Moore, so

Christopher T. Anderson:

That’s C-A-R-R-O-L-E-E-M double ORE.

Carrolee Moore:

Yeah. A lot of doubles. Yeah.

Christopher T. Anderson:

But so how do they get to this course?

Carrolee Moore:

So I am going to give you a link in the show notes. This should be able to have you.

Christopher T. Anderson:

We will put that in the show notes. So thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Carrolee Moore:

Awesome.

Christopher T. Anderson:

And yeah, this wraps up The Un-Billable Hour for this episode. I want to thank all of our listeners for hanging out here with us. I think this was really new and unique information and appreciate Carol Lee Moore, thank you for being on the show.

Carrolee Moore:

Thank you so much for having me, Christopher.

Christopher T. Anderson:

Not at all. To remind everybody, Carol Lee is the founder of the Podcast Pitching Society, and she’s got a great offer for you here in the show notes. So please pick it up. And of course, I am Christopher T Anderson, and I look forward to seeing you next month with another great guest as we learn more about the topics that help us build a law firm business that works for you. And please remember that you can subscribe to all the additions of this [email protected] or on iTunes, and you can be part of the show. So everybody can join the show on the third Thursday of every month at three. Ask your own questions and get them answered by not just me, but Joshua Lennon from Clio. We might invite Carol Lee, maybe she can come on for one of those shows and other experts from our Unbillable hour episode. Come on the community table and answer your questions. If you can’t make it the third Thursday at three, you can go right to the show notes right now and leave your question there, and we’ll pick up that question and ask it at the community table. But it’s really fun to be there, live every Thursday, Thursday at three o’clock. Until then, we thank you for joining us and we will speak again soon.

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