Blazing a Trail: The Role of Paralegal Associations in a Changing World

Episode Notes

Transcript

Tony Sipp:

And welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp, and today we’re joined by two powerhouse leaders who impact reaches far beyond the paralegal associations. First up, we have Milady Cambare, a paralegal veteran with over 20 years of experience in business contracts at Edward Life Science. She’s not only a legal expert, but a community champion recognized nationally by Nala for her pro bono work, and known for her dynamic leadership within the Orange County Paralegal Association. From organizing beach cleanups to leading virtual MCs during the pandemic brings heart strategy and a vision to everything she touches. Also, joining us is Travis Chow, the paralegal coordinator at Collins and Collins, LLP, whose career bridges law, tech and innovation with certifications in cyber intelligence and social media intelligence. Travis is redefining what it means to be a modern paralegal. He’s a licensed realtor, notary public, and a driving force within the Los Angeles Paralegal Association where he’s helping shape the next generation of legal professionals. Together, MELDE and Travis represent the best of what paralegal leadership can be, collaborative, forward thinking, deeply committed to service. Let’s dive into their stories, their insights, and their vision for the future of the field. Welcome Travis and Mile.

Travis Chow:

Thanks, Tony. Thanks for having us.

Milady Cambare:

Happy To be here.

Tony Sipp:

Yeah, I’m so happy to have you. I’ve been waiting to have this conversation with you guys. Both people are presidents as most of you know, and I’m really happy to have this conversation with the two of you. So I’ll start about leadership and legacy. So Milady, you’ve held nearly every leadership role within the OCPA. What leadership lesson from your time as president 2024 and 2025 do you think will shape the future of the paralegal associations?

Milady Cambare:

So yes. So I’ve been an active member of OCPA since 2008 and part of the executive board since 2010. So I was president last year and this year, and one of the things that I’ve learned from being president is that it’s really important to continue to have community outreach, especially to the students. We have so many student paralegals and just people in their career that are doing a career change and they want to explore the paralegal field. So to me, like the next generation of paralegals and legal professionals is our future and it’s important for us at OCPA and as well as Nella and other organizations to help guide them, help them continue with MCLE and help them with networking and having resources for jobs, and also important to collaborate with paralegal schools. Most of our membership comes from students and we hope that when those students graduate with their paralegal certificate that they continue their membership within OCPA because like I said, they’re the next generation and we’re looking to grow them and groom them to be the next leaders of our organization. One thing I also feel is important is not just collaborating with paralegal schools, but also with law firms and with the in-house legal departments. So we try to reach out to them and have them join, have their team building or networking events with OCPA because that just helps us with our numbers and make our memberships stronger, and having that collaboration that you normally wouldn’t get if you were not a member of O cpa.

Tony Sipp:

Well said. And Travis, as a paralegal coordinator and multi certified professional, how do you balance the traditional legal operations with emergent tech like cyber intelligence in your leadership at Lapa in your job?

Travis Chow:

That’s a good question, Tony. I think there has to be a balance still between maybe what I’ll call traditional paralegal topics like motion work discovery, trial preparation, and all the things that go with that. But with emerging texts like AI and cybersecurity, you still have to try to blend both of these things. I think the new tech things are ultimately what employers and law firms specifically are demanding now out of their paralegals. I think it’s important that we continue training and make sure that our members are paralegals at all levels, all experience levels are confident, at least speaking about the new technology. They don’t necessarily have to be experts in using it, they just have to be confident in their knowledge of its existence, of what it is, of what it does. I think then we can leverage that knowledge and help us and enhance our work, not necessarily to replace us like everyone’s fearing, but I think it’ll go hand in hand as our new tool while we’re working.

Tony Sipp:

And that’s the important part, that AI is a tool to be used not to replace. So we have to know enough to be able to utilize it as a tool and be effective, just know enough to be more than the other person knows. So Travis, you’ve earned multiple degrees in certifications. How do you see the interdisciplinary education like social, behavioral science enhancing paralegal work today?

Travis Chow:

I think it’s really important. US paralegals, we bring to the workplace all our diversity of our previous experiences. Whether you come from something like customer service, retail education, side healthcare, or any other field, those skills like communication, organization, empathy, problem solving, they all translate into the paralegal work life. Those kind of unique experiences give paralegals a different perspective. They can adapt their ability to connect with clients, their ability to work in teams. It’s often those past experiences that help paralegals thrive in the workplace. So my background in social and behavioral science is very helpful because it helps with social cues. You can read attorneys, read clients, read members of your team, and it adds depth to your work. It helps me understand people better, including clients, including witnesses, including colleagues and everybody on your team. Paralegal work is not always just documents and laws. It’s about us as humans, our behavior, the way we communicate empathy that we can give. I think those skills make us more effective, more relatable when we face stressful situations.

Tony Sipp:

I don’t know. You’re talking about stressful. The legal field is not stressful at all. It’s just law, right? You just follow it and you just keep going.

Travis Chow:

I wish.

Tony Sipp:

So during the pandemic, you did a pivot to virtual MCs. When innovations from that time do you think should remain a part of professional development going forward?

Milady Cambare:

So yeah, during the pandemic, I mean that was as an interesting time. We didn’t know this was all new to us. We didn’t know how long this was going to last, and we just had to adapt really quickly and just be very flexible. Before that time, OCPA was not using anything virtual. Everything was in person, everything, all our M mc LE webinars, lunch and learns, everything was in person. So as soon as the pandemic hit and then we realized what, we’re not going to be able to meet in person anytime soon, and even if we do meet in person, it’s going to be very limited. We’re not going to be able to help all our membership. So what we just had to jump on using Google meets and Zoom, and that’s really what helped me personally make it through the pandemic. And a lot of people that I’ve talked to within OCPA is just having that virtual space that we can continue with our MCLE and meet with each other and see each other online and collaborate.

So that’s something that now that everything’s gone back to normal, we’re still using Zoom for our, and Google meets for our MCLE because our lunch and learns has been very popular. We try to do at least three lunch and learns a month, and it’s so convenient to just be able to log in anywhere. A lot of people work from home still. They’re hybrid. They don’t have to be on campus or in the office or some are, they’re even remote. So having that ability to just log in virtually to still be connected has been great. And I don’t think that’s ever going to go away with OCPA just because of the convenience of it and just that’s our new normal now to do stuff virtually. That’s just the way, although we do want to meet in person and we try to meet in person as much as we can, I think that is really what’s going to just be part of it moving forward.

Also, having online tools like SurveyMonkey, we use that to collect information and data for our salary surveys that we do. So having that tool has been great and we’ll continue to use that because we can have a bigger reach to reach out. CPA does the annual salary survey that we open up to all members of OCP as well as the legal community so we can get information on different job experiences, titles, data on salary range and educational background. So that’s been very valuable to have that ability to do online. Also, OCP does paralegal mentorship and one of the things too, because we can do virtual, so you can meet more frequently because it’s just convenient. You can meet during your lunch break, you can meet on your drive home or if you’re sitting in traffic you can multitask. So we using it to our benefit and it’s just integrated now into our daily lives, and I think that’s just the future is just having that continuous virtual platform.

Tony Sipp:

Thank you. Doing virtual CLEs, what innovations from that time do you think should remain part of the professional development going forward?

Travis Chow:

I echo a lot of things. Lydia is saying, we didn’t really have anything. When the pandemic started, this was all new to us. We quickly went to Zoom and that was new to everybody and it was difficult having happy hours or conferences or events and breakout rooms on Zoom. It was just tough and everyone had to get used to a different mode of receiving information, but now everyone’s getting used to it and everyone prefers it. I think our younger members prefer Zoom, so that remains now what our M MCs. It remains now what our mentorship program where we’ll meet with our students on Zoom on teams to go over things that they need, project advice, job advice, class advice and things like that. However, it’s still important to have in-person events. Our October conference coming October 18th is in person. We’re taking over the Sheraton in Los Angeles, and that’s our signature event with tons of MCs and vendor meetups and opportunities for our members, and that has to be in person. We haven’t done too many MCs in person, but I’d like to do a few at least and maybe bring it to where the members are. Some of the members can’t make it to downtown LA all the time, so I think it’s important to have an in-person meeting where the members are at.

Tony Sipp:

Let’s take a quick commercial break and we’ll be right back and welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp and I’m here with Travis in the late A and we’re talking about paralegals. In the paralegal associations. I’m fortunate to have two titans of the industry with us to discuss some topics that are very important to the paralegal community. One of the questions I have for both of you is what strategies have you found most effective in keeping members engaged, especially across different generations of paralegals? Travis,

Travis Chow:

That’s a good question. We talk a lot about that as a board. I think the key is offering a mix of engagement opportunities for the paralegals. For some that’s in person events, for others that’s educational, CLEs, access to information, social media coverage. So I’ve kind of found that creating spaces where all voices are welcome, whether you’re a new paralegal, whether you have decades of experience, I think that builds engagement, history and real estate. Notary dealing with old attorney partners to the two wells and post bar clerks is that you have to be open to new ideas and that keeps everybody connected and learning from each other. At lapa, we encourage contributions from all levels of membership. We want members to be involved in content creation, whether that’s with our social media, whether that’s with our newsletter and involved with our volunteering in our events in our community, we have experienced paralegals that mentor the students, the newer paralegals, while they’re completing their paralegal program or they’re working in their fields.

We have students give us feedback all the time, what they need from us to succeed and us letting them know what we can offer them, whether it’s resume help, guidance, thoughts on the profession, salary range, all these type of things. We have working paralegals that tell us that they just want to further their careers, they just don’t know how or where to go. It’s more of a defense mechanism for me, but I like to use humor to break tension and keep the mood light. Sometimes a good laugh, it can shift perspective. This can be the best way to get feedback from people, from our members, and feedback’s the most important thing that I want. It helps us as an organization adjust so we can keep our events relevant, useful and current.

Tony Sipp:

That’s a good point, but you have to be funny.

Travis Chow:

Never, never. Everybody thinks we work in the law and it’s so dry and you can’t make a joke or anything, but they have no idea.

Tony Sipp:

That’s very true. But Milady, I suspect it’s the same for you over in Orange County there. Anything different?

Milady Cambare:

Yeah, so we do a lot with Travis just said, but also for us, we’re trying to do more networking events in person, and one of our most popular events is our MCLE Newport Harbor Cruise. So it’s a three hour dinner cruise that we just kind of cruise around Newport Harbor, we have a speaker and we have dinner, like a buffet dinner and networking with our vendors and we do a champagne toast. So it’s just a really fun and beautiful event just because you’re cruising around Newport, you see the sunset views, you’re mingling with each other. It’s a treat. And that’s been one of our most popular events and it just grows every year. So that is definitely something that we get all age range from students to working paralegals to people that are almost retiring, but they just want to come and hang out at m mc LE and then enjoy the scenery.

I also just hosted an ice cream social couple weeks ago, which was a big hit. We’ve never done that before, but it’s been so hot here in southern California, and I just wanted to do something to give back to the members because sometimes you just want to have fun and I mean, it’s great to be in a hotel and have our presentation, but to have it in an informal setting with ice cream, I mean, how can you beat that, right? Especially when it’s hot. And then we played some fun games. We played, it’s called OP Mingle Bingo. So we made a bingo card with, and they have to go around and talk to people and find out questions like, oh, who loves karaoke? Who’s served on a jury? Who plays an instrument? So it’s just forcing people to come and talk to people, and you have to fill out all the squares in order to win, so you have to talk to everybody, and it’s one per person, so you can’t talk to the same person and answer all the questions.

So it forces people to interact. And then we had a prize, so we were actually giving away free OCP membership and free MCLE lunch and learns, and some of our vendors actually donated. We had Starbucks gift cards, we got somebody donated speakers. So it’s just something fun and different, and I think it was a big hit and a lot of the students that were students there were just so excited because that was their first OCPA event and they were like, is it always like this? You guys have so much fun. I’m like, yes, come back. Keep coming. We do all kinds of fun stuff. So that was just amazing. And my biggest thing that made me so happy was to see the students were taking pictures at our events and posting it on LinkedIn and sharing it. So that to me was like, okay, this was definitely a success for them to post it and be so excited and tell. And the best thing is word of mouth. The best way to learn about something is word of mouth, so that’s how they bring in their friends and coworkers and teachers and vendors. So that’s the best way. So definitely want to keep up with that.

Tony Sipp:

You nailed the sense of community, your tribe. These are the things I wish I knew and had the opportunity to participate in when I was becoming a paralegal. I’m jealous that I’ve never been on the cruise yet, but I’m going to have to make that change. Travis, I hope you’re listening to all these great ideas that she just came up with. Those are fantastic. I mean, you want to be able to get in and I think that’s where in-person matters, where now you can network. You can see that these people are human. Some person like you with 20 years of experience might look unattainable. I don’t know how I’m ever going to get to her level or Travis, I don’t know how his level, but when they meet you and they see that you’re just like them and then you want to mentor and you want to help grow, help them grow, help them become a better person and a better paralegal in their field. I think that’s fantastic. So keep on keeping on. That’s fantastic. So how do you both use your associations to collaborate with each other or with NA to amplify the voices of paralegals nationally?

Milady Cambare:

Yeah, so we’ve been fortunate that OCP and lapa have been collaborating the past two years, more regularly. Last year we did a lot of DEI panel discussions, so pretty much every month we were doing something on women’s history, black American history, Asian American history. I mean, it was just very nice to have that monthly panel discussions with OCPA lapa and even San Diego was included too, and that was great to have that collaboration. One of my favorite ones was the veterans. The Veterans, and we had Jonathan Dang who was the president, he’s a veteran, and we had someone from our team from OCPA who was also military veteran and just hearing their journey and what they’ve gone through and then their career now, how they’re successful they are. That was just really inspiring to hear that. Also joint pro bono events, we’ve been collaborating with each other. I know that several OCP members have attended LABA’s events that they had at the food bank and during the fires and la, the wildfires, they came to help out with the collection of donations. Most recently we had a Angels versus Dodgers game. That was super fun. Right, Travis? I know Travis was happy to be there. I think Travis, you are an Angels fan, so

Travis Chow:

Yeah, our board is not too happy with me showing up in all Angels gear, but

Milady Cambare:

We have people in all Dodgers gear, so it’s all, we’re just Southern California, right?

Tony Sipp:

Very. Oh, you guys are the best. Let’s take a quick commercial break. I have 20 questions, yes or no questions for both of you. When we come back, we’ll be right back and welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp and I’m here with the Leday and Travis, both presidents of their association, Leday for the Orange County Paralegal Association, and Travis for the Los Angeles Paralegal Station. I have a fun little bit that I’d like to do that I’ve been incorporating on the podcast, and it’s 20 yes or no questions. Mela, you can start first, Travis, you go right after her. Okay.

Milady Cambare:

Okay, got it.

Tony Sipp:

Have you ever reviewed a contract and found a typo that made you laugh out loud?

Travis Chow:

Yes. Yes.

Tony Sipp:

Number two, would you ever trade one day in the office for one day at the beach? No laptops allowed,

Travis Chow:

Yes. No, I’m not a beach guy.

Tony Sipp:

You’re not a beach guy. Got it. Too much sun. Got it. No more melanin. Have you ever attended a paralegal conference? Mainly for the networking and the free swag?

Travis Chow:

Yes. Yes, always for the free swag, always.

Tony Sipp:

Do you believe paralegals run on coffee more than deadlines?

Milady Cambare:

I agree,

Travis Chow:

Yes. For me, no. I don’t drink coffee, so it’s all adrenaline for the deadlines, just Okay.

Tony Sipp:

Have you ever secretly enjoyed organizing discovery documents more than expected?

Travis Chow:

No. I’m a little OCD, so yes, I do take pleasure in that.

Tony Sipp:

I’m going to say yes to. I’m kind of a little pride in that work there because you worked so hard on it. Number six, do you think volunteering teaches just as much as formal education?

Milady Cambare:

Yes, most definitely. Yes, 100%.

Tony Sipp:

Have you ever made a lifelong friend through a paralegal association?

Milady Cambare:

Yes. All of my friends.

Tony Sipp:

I know, right? Same here, Travis?

Travis Chow:

Yes, they’ve added to the select few.

Tony Sipp:

Got it. Do you believe paralegals deserve their own Netflix drama series?

Milady Cambare:

Ooh, that’s interesting. I think so. I think that could happen.

Travis Chow:

Yeah. Why not? I think it’d get people interested in what we actually do.

Tony Sipp:

I think so too. I think we can come up with something and present it to Netflix. So have you ever given legal advice accidentally at a family barbecue?

Milady Cambare:

No, I have not. I’m too busy eating.

Travis Chow:

I don’t think anybody’s ever wanted my advice, so no.

Tony Sipp:

Gosh. Oh, do you think Control F is one of the greatest legal tools ever invented?

Milady Cambare:

Yes,

Travis Chow:

I love control F. For me, it’s Control Z for the amount of mistakes I make.

Tony Sipp:

Have you ever had to explain what a paralegal really does more than three times in one day?

Milady Cambare:

Yes, I have.

Tony Sipp:

Same,

Milady Cambare:

Yes.

Tony Sipp:

Would you ever run for Paralegal of the year if it was an official title?

Milady Cambare:

No, I would not.

Tony Sipp:

I think you are paralegal. I think both of you are. Be honest with you. You’re both great, so I’m going to say yes to both of you. I don’t think you would run for it. I think it would be given to you because you already meet the criteria there. I’m going to answer.

Milady Cambare:

You’re much too kind, Tony.

Tony Sipp:

No, I think it’s true. Have you ever been starstruck meeting another paralegal leader at a conference and that excludes me.

Milady Cambare:

Oh, yes, I have.

Travis Chow:

Yes. It was nice to see and meet someone in person rather than just emailing and texting and you finally get to meet somebody that’s helped you along the way.

Tony Sipp:

Can we name names?

Travis Chow:

Definitely not Tony. Just kidding, just kidding. Todd.

Milady Cambare:

Besides Tony. Christine Castio. Yes,

Tony Sipp:

Well said. Amen to that. Travis.

Travis Chow:

I think it would’ve to be Lee Lee page. He’s the one that’s helped immensely.

Tony Sipp:

Yeah, he’s also a board advisor as well, so yeah, and he was the past president of Lapa. We share being one of the few first black presidents for Lapa here. Here to that. Do you think Zoom MCs are here to stay for good?

Milady Cambare:

Yes, I do. Yes, definitely.

Tony Sipp:

Have you ever walked into a court and thought I should have been a lawyer, but nah.

Milady Cambare:

No, I have not.

Travis Chow:

I think that every single time I walk into a Courtroom, thank God I didn’t. Thank God I didn’t do this.

Tony Sipp:

Have you ever wished you had a paralegal cape for all the work that you juggle?

Milady Cambare:

Yes, I would

Travis Chow:

Love a cape. No Cape needed for me. Just give me a corner. Give me a corner. A corner in the dark.

Tony Sipp:

Do you believe being part of paralegal association is a game changer for careers?

Milady Cambare:

I do, yes, for sure.

Travis Chow:

Yes. Depending on how much you contribute, you still have to contribute and build your own path too.

Tony Sipp:

Have you ever thought paralegals are the true unsung heroes of the legal systems?

Milady Cambare:

I think so. I like to think so.

Travis Chow:

Definitely. I think we put in a lot of the grunt work, a lot of the heavy lifting in the background.

Tony Sipp:

Would you say your paralegal journey has been more exciting than you originally imagined?

Milady Cambare:

So exciting. I would never have thought I would, this is my second career to be a paralegal and then to be doing this for the last 20 years and be the president of O cpa, this was not something I would’ve thought on my own, and I’m just so happy that it just happened to be my path and my journey.

Travis Chow:

Journey. I picked this career when I was in high school. I was failing in high school, and I picked this career because the catalog said there was no math needed for this. So there’s been a lot of twist and turns, but I’m certainly happy that I chose this.

Tony Sipp:

Nice, nice. That’s great. Well, those are the 20 questions I have for you. Thank you for your prompt responses. So yes or no, what advice would you give anybody attempting to join the field or get involved or just curious?

Milady Cambare:

Yeah, so my advice would be definitely join an association, your local association if you’re a student, even better, because there’s so many opportunities of networking, of mentorship, of just having that collaboration that you would not get normally just in your regular going to school or being at work. And then as a working paralegal, be involved. It’s easy to sign up, but to make an effort to give back and to participate, that’s what’s needed. And it’s great to attend the MCLE lunch and learns and webinars and in-person events, but you also need to give back in volunteering and helping the new generation of paralegals and just helping each other become aware. Knowledge and awareness is key for the future. And also just being flexible in knowing that with AI and the future, things can change, but we just have to be aware and that will help us become and stay successful.

Also, I just want to put in a plug for O cpa. We do have our educational conference coming up in September 20th, and this is our annual conference that we have in the Hilton and Orange County, and our theme this year is DARE Dream Deliver, and it’s a Saturday all day conference and it just gives an opportunity to have the keynote speaker just inspirational. We have a panel discussion, which Tony, you are a part of, and I’m so happy that you are part of the paralegal to para leader. I think you’re a perfect person to be one of the panelists and that we do have many breakout sessions that a lot of the theme is evolving ai. It’s in our lives now and it’s going to be become more of our future. So hope to see you guys there, hope you join your organizations and stay involved, stay active and just keep networking.

Tony Sipp:

Great advice, Travis.

Travis Chow:

I think no matter what level of experience you have in the field, you can’t be scared of a little adversity. I think people fear adversity a little bit. Our October conference, October 18th, our messages stand strong, stand together. We have a keynote speaker, judge Elizabeth White, and we listen to our members this year. We have topics on employment law, on family law, immigration, legal, writing, resume review, and we have our ethics sessions. Come join us for some swag bags, some raffles. October 18th, Sheraton downtown.

Tony Sipp:

That’s very exciting. Thank you both for being our guests and for our listeners, if they want to get in contact with you and follow up on anything that you’ve shared with them, where can they get in contact with you? Milady?

Milady Cambare:

The best one would be LinkedIn. Please friend me on LinkedIn. I’d love to be connected with you. Milady, M-I-L-A-D-Y. Last name is C-A-M-B-A-R-E.

Tony Sipp:

Excellent. Excellent. Travis,

Travis Chow:

Same thing. Find me on LinkedIn. Travis Chow, CHOW. There’s only two of me. The other one’s a doctor in San Francisco and that’s not me.

Tony Sipp:

You said W?

Travis Chow:

WWW.

Tony Sipp:

Well, w thank you to both of you for being on here. We will see you next time. Again, thank you to MyDay and Travis. You both are wonderful titans in the industry and I’m really, really proud to call you my friends and be a part of the circle that we’re in. Even for Travis, who has a limited amount of friends, apparently in a circle. I don’t know. I’m happy to have you

Milady Cambare:

With my lifetime

Tony Sipp:

Friends. Exactly. Alright, folks, have a wonderful day. We’ll see you next time.

Travis Chow:

Thanks, Tony.

Milady Cambare:

Thank you.

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