Passing the NALA CP® Exam, Help Is Here!

Episode Notes

Transcript

Tony Sipp:

Welcome to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp. I’m here with Jill Francisco and we’re also here with Lori Young, professor at the College of the Canyons. Lori, welcome to the Paralegal Voice.

Lori Young:

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Tony and Jill. It’s such a pleasure to be here. Yeah, so I’m a full-time professor at College of the Canyons. Prior to that, I had 30 years of legal experience as a senior paralegal. Not all of those years were a senior paralegal, but of course I retired then and now I’m in my second career teaching and mentoring and just loving the legal profession. I just can’t get away from it.

Tony Sipp:

I love it. So Lori, and I hate to bring this up, but it’s a real life issue that’s going on with us right now is that the wildfires have impacted LA and you are la The Canyons came up because I think they were kind of a hub for the firefighters during these fires, and thank God for the rain. Thank God for the rain. But tell us a little bit about how the College of the Canyons helped with the wildfire victims, evacuees, et cetera.

Lori Young:

It is just been a very, very sad situation for our students. Some of our professors and one of the recent fires, college of the Canyons became an evacuation center and they also became one of the centers for the Incident command team. And so I heard, I think I received an email just today that the command team is now demobilizing from our campus. So that’s a good sign. We’re going to be back at it. And we were closed for a few days last week and just making sure everyone’s safe. So that’s what we want.

Tony Sipp:

I’m happy to hear that. I went out and volunteered myself to try to help, and I’m going to write a story about this, but we were able to go to Costco, my wife’s company, heroes and Villains, I’m going to name drop, donated some money to help us go buy some products from somewhere that we chose Costco. And what was cool about that is that we bought stuff, donated stuff, and then redistributed stuff. Our purchases came in and we were able to send that out to cars that were lined up to come out. And it was just such a beautiful scene to see that bread that I just bought go out.

Lori Young:

What a heartwarming story, Tony.

Tony Sipp:

It’s true. It was just like, I want to do this over and over and over and over again. This is probably why I want to run for office, but we’re not here to talk about that. We’re here to talk about the CP exam and the courses that we have available. So Lori, tell us a little bit about the program, how the program became a program, and tell us a little bit more about your involvement with that because you were heavily involved with that program.

Lori Young:

Oh, I’m so happy to share this story with you because we partnered with Nala and I had met with Vanessa Finley, the CEO of Nala, what’s also named Vinny. And most people know that the Nala certified paralegal credential, it’s voluntary. However, by passing that CP exam, it demonstrates that mastery of knowledge and your skills and it sets you apart. You’ve accomplished something special. So it kind of says, Hey, I’ve gone above and beyond. This is my career, this is my profession, and it gives the person a competitive edge. So that’s what I wanted for our students. That’s what I want for our paralegals. And I don’t know if you mind if I share a personal story with you,

Tony Sipp:

Please, by all means.

Lori Young:

So I didn’t obtain my cp, but I obtained a different certification from the Legal Professionals Incorporated here in California. And once I got that credential, I just have to tell you, it boosted my self-esteem, my confidence, and this is quite a few years ago, but I started getting more involved in my legal community. I started serving on boards, networking on chairing events, statewide teaching part-time at a community college, which maybe that was what led to my second career now as teaching as a professor in paralegal studies. I even went on with my education getting my master’s degree. And so being at the college, I had this opportunity to serve on the curriculum committee, and that’s kind of how it came about. I remember sitting on the curriculum committee and there was a person wanting to implement some courses for the CBE program and the CBE is the teaching credential in California, and my wheels started turning, I’m thinking, wait a second, if we could have study courses for certification exams, maybe we should set something up for our paralegal students.

So that’s where my wheel started turning. I got in touch with Vanessa Finley and she was on board and she’s like, let’s do it. And so we created this curriculum based on now SAP exam. Of course we don’t know what the exam is like, but we’ve got the textbook, we’ve got the instructors, and I’m also serving on Nala school relations task force. So it’s just very, very exciting that we get to be a part of nala, promote the CP exam, and if I could get every paralegal out there to get certified, somehow it just boosts your self-esteem and your confidence and you just dunno what doors will open for you. So certification opens doors,

Tony Sipp:

You get to bill more, the firms get to bill you at a higher rate. It’s a win-win.

Lori Young:

It’s a win-win especially because then you’re going to be doing more continuing education and you stay up to date.

Jill Francisco:

I want to say something too, I love all that, Lori that you’re doing and obviously being past president of Nala, I’m all for everything. Nala and especially it’s awesome certification, first class all the way program. The thing that I want to say too is to me it’s like you said, forever education. And I think I myself personally took the CP exam after I had been out of school for two years. I graduated from Marshall University in 94 and actually joined Nala in 2000 and then waited until I was pregnant with my son, the wonderful JD in 2004, like fall-ish and took the exam back when it was only offered three times a year in person with the paper and the pen. So all these paralegals listening, we’re going to try to motivate you today and get you to take the exam. Just think of this that you do not have to go in person and take the exam because the day I went in person to take the exam, I thought there was only one essay.

Obviously the judgment analytical ability essay. I get in there though, and there’s technically, we had to write something with communications to demonstrate you had to use correct grammar, correct punctuation, correct tense, all this kind of thing. So you had to rewrite it. And so I get totally instantly nervous and I’m holding my pencil and my hand is sweating and then I’m wiping my hands on my jeans and their new jeans. So then my hands are blue and it’s just going downhill fast. It’s just going downhill really fast. So like I said, just think you have a computer now you’re just checking little dots or typing. It’s a lot better if you’re sweating, get a fan or something. But it is very, very motivating even though like I said, I got my degree, I got my bachelor’s degree, and then here we are, I got my cp.

And like you said, it was very, very self-motivating because no one made me do it. And my last thing just about what Lori was talking about is to me, we’re not forced to do it right now. Nationwide. We don’t have to get a license. And my mother was a dental hygienist and so she obviously had a license to be a dental hygienist. She was in the school district, but we always kind of went back and forth licensing certification. That’s the big debate. And she always thought that licensing is the bare minimum of something. You have to just meet this and this to do this. But with certification, it’s uplifting and it’s like Achieve and do this, get that certification. You’re lifting yourself up, you’re adding more information, more education. You’re not just attaining this bare level to do X, Y, Z, and in all certification. I love it. I love that nala’s doing it voluntary and I love that Basically the paralegals are doing it is voluntary, so it’s like it’s for yourself. You’re improving yourself, not required. And I think that says a lot about all the awesome paralegals that are doing it and striving to do it and have done it. Woo, go paralegals.

Lori Young:

And plus there’s the advanced degree. So one of our instructors is Terry Wright, who was a CP and then became an A CP. So we have an A CP as one of our instructors, and then we have Christine Ocean, who is another one of our instructors, and she’s got her jd, and she used to teach before she hopped on and became a part of our team. She was mentoring law school students. So we just have a fantastic team that is instructing these courses and we are getting great feedback. And so we’re getting ready to launch our next set the third week in February. So registration is open, maybe put a little flyer with the podcast and then students or people who are listening can click on that and find out the information. Of course, they can contact me at any time and I’ll be happy to help

Tony Sipp:

Terry’s the past president of lapa. Not to boast that I’m also a past president of lapa, but I don’t have my A CP and this year, this year, this year, I’m going to have to hold myself accountable right now.

Lori Young:

Oh, who’s joining? Tony?

Tony Sipp:

There’s a new board. Tal, I’m looking at you. We’re going to make sure that we do this together and make that happen. She doesn’t know I just said that about her, but we’re going to do that right now

Jill Francisco:

And our listeners, any of our listeners can jump on board and let’s go. This is the year to do it. If you’ve been thinking about it, you’ve been on the fence, go for it. We got a great starting platform to get you going.

Tony Sipp:

Yeah, yeah. I’m excited. I’m excited. I want to do this. I passed my CAS, so I just got to get my CP and then get it going. So I’m really excited about the program, Lori, what you’ve created for our community and how you’re continuing to help the community.

Lori Young:

Well, thank you.

Tony Sipp:

I’d love to see that. And let’s go. So let’s take a quick commercial break and we will be right back and welcome back, Laurie. Can you elaborate on the differences between the virtual live sessions and the guided self study sessions?

Lori Young:

The virtual live sessions, those are via Zoom. The students will meet weekly with the instructor via Zoom on a set date and time. So let’s say for instance, it’s every Monday for 10 weeks from six to eight. Then if that doesn’t fit into the student’s schedule, they have the option to enroll into our a hundred percent online course for the knowledge. And that’s where the students log into a learning platform. It’s called Canvas, and they log in weekly. They work at their own pace, they review the content, they perform the exercises, but there’s also the instructor that is still meeting with the students online and giving the content and assigning the exercises and grading them and giving them feedback. So it’s really helpful that you have these two different modalities. It’s like, oh, am I a Zoom person? Do I learn better that way? Or do I do self-independent studying or get a study buddy and enroll in the courses? So those are two ways that we’re able to offer the courses and it keeps the paralegals on track so that we’re covering these various subjects and knowing what all of these subjects are on that knowledge exam.

Jill Francisco:

Quick question, if they do the self log into canvas and choose to do that, do they at any point, are they viewing recorded lectures or the recorded actual instruction from the live?

Lori Young:

Yeah, that’s a great question. Yes, there are recorded lectures on the a hundred percent online and you can stop, go back and just like if you’re in the Zoom, you’ve got your PowerPoint, you can be taking your notes, you have access to that material, let alone the NA textbook. So we’ve got a lot of tools out there to help the students really mastered the subjects and pass that knowledge exam. You’ve got to put in the effort, say, I’m going to do this, I got to study it. It’s like even if when I took mine through California, it’s like I already been a paralegal for a while, and then I had to tu, I’m going to share a story,

Tony Sipp:

Please.

Lori Young:

When I took my certification the first time I didn’t pass, oh, I was devastated. I was like, no, I know this stuff. How did I not pass? And so I pulled up my votes and I said, you know what? I’m going to do this again. So of course the second time I passed, but I realized I hadn’t studied as hard as I should have studied. I thought just because I was a paralegal, maybe I knew a lot of the information, but I really needed to study and make sure I was a master of my content.

Jill Francisco:

That’s a good point. And to never give up because it’s not like a lot of people do that. The test is a administered different than it was before. It used to be divided into all the different subjects. So you could easily fail real estate or contracts or something like that. And it might be because you are not experiencing that or you didn’t have a class on that. And so to our listeners, don’t get discouraged. I mean, Lori has a great point. Don’t get discouraged when you fail because you can jump right in there. It’s actually made to give you X amount of chances when you pay the fees and things like that because it’s not an easy test. But we don’t want it to be an easy test because it means more when you achieve the certification. So

Lori Young:

You’re so right. And I can tell you, no one’s ever asked me, oh, how many times did you have to take the certification exam to pass it? It’s like, no, I’ve got my credential. They look at the credential, they move on. It’s like this person knows that they’re a professional, they’re involved in their legal profession, it’s their career. So anyway,

Jill Francisco:

Yeah, you don’t have to wear a little pin or something. Well, that’s awesome. So at your own pace, especially with our lives and paralegal lives nowadays. That’s awesome.

Lori Young:

Well, and we wanted to be able to meet Pacific Coast Times to East Coast time,

Jill Francisco:

Like what we’re doing today. Yes.

Lori Young:

And then I just want to add for our skills, the writing portion of the exam, we hold those on Saturdays. Those are not a hundred percent online. Those are on Saturdays where the professor says, I really want to meet with the students and give them the feedback that they need to know. So we have all those classes on Saturday mornings and it’s been working out well, and those are seven weeks. So if you think about two months worth of your time for the skills and then just kind of backing up a little bit for the knowledge that you pass first, that’s like 10 weeks, two and a half months. Take the exam, move on to the skills, and wow,

Jill Francisco:

You’re doing it before you know it, you’ve obtained it. You’re right.

Tony Sipp:

I feel like my cousin Vinny, I keep trying to take the test and then trying to get there, but we’ll get there.

Jill Francisco:

You will get there.

Tony Sipp:

Yes. And it’s federal law. It’s not California specific. It’s not about any state specific. It’s federal law. So we can do this. So let’s just keep moving. So Lori, what kind of feedback have you received from participants of these courses and how has it influenced their careers?

Lori Young:

Oh, this is such a great question. It’s part of probably one of my favorite parts is that when we get to celebrate the cp, so the last year was the first year. So this program’s only been in existence for now going on our two years. And so last year we got to celebrate our CPS with our own graduates. So it’s via Zoom and in person. And so that was really special that we got to honor the cps. So some of the feedback that we’ve received, it’s just been fantastic. So we had one CP who advanced her career. She’s now working at Sony Pictures as a senior sourcing analyst, and she told me she attributed because she had passed a CP exam, maybe there were two people vying for the position and maybe this one person had the cp and that’s who got it. Another CP opened up her freelance paralegal service

Busier than ever. I understand. We had another CP that had, or a student or an applicant who had reached out to me and said, I’m really struggling. I’ve tried passing the exam, I just can’t pass it. Do you think I should enroll in the course? And I said, of course you should enroll in the course and drum roll. I was so excited to see her name on the list of the persons that had passed the cp, and not only did she a cp, when she passed that cp, she took it to the next step and she couldn’t wait to email me and said A CP, and I was like, yay. So it was just getting over that little hurdle and she hadn’t passed it. It had been a few times and had taken it. So that class helped her as a study buddy, somebody that was really going to help them get it.

And then there was another CP who’s advanced her career and is now an adjunct teacher. I’m going to let you know it’s at College of the Canyons. Yay. We just get to hear lots of great stories and how that CP credential is just springboarding their career. They’re just taking it to the next step. They already could and should, but here they are. It’s like now they believe in themselves even more. So I just think it’s wonderful. It opens a lot of doors. It lets their employers or their companies know that this paralegal is dedicated to the profession.

Jill Francisco:

And I like one of the things that you said early on. I mean obviously as paralegals, I know paralegals that don’t have their CP or whatever, and they’re not mandated by anything to get continuing education. I know they do. I know some do because some just they know it’s important to keep on top of their field, but when you do have your credential and it’s important, and you definitely don’t want to let it lapse, you’re out there getting all the education that you can get. The continued education, my certification was just up 2025 since I was on the 2000 or the 20, 25. I’m every five years. So it’s always easy for me to figure out. But that’s just another thing, like you said, that employers and really anybody that you come across knows that you’re dedicated, you’re committed constantly, not just to get your degree, but after you’re done with your formal education.

And I love how you said that one of your success stories was that one of your acps and students is now teaching because that Tony and I have had guests on before. We try to give ideas and things to paralegals because after you’ve been doing it, I’ve been doing it 27 years, going on 28. It’s like you want to do other things. And we love the profession. And I’ve always thought when you love a profession like that, the key is to teach and engage and work and network and get it so the profession will thrive in the future. And I did the same thing. I teach the ethics and the intro to paralegals each fall at Mount West Community College here in Huntington, West Virginia. And it’s just so great because just recently the first class of paralegals graduated and they’re coming back and thanking me and I’m like, oh, because really, honestly, I think my job is obviously, I’m serious about the ethics part, but the other I think is just to excited and pumped up and whatever about the paralegal proficient. It’s just an overview of all the things that you could possibly get into. I love what you’re doing and I love the success stories. And that’s when you know you’re doing something right.

Lori Young:

Wow, thank you for that. Because feel like you’re doing the same thing. You’re just still mentoring people. We just mentor. We’re seasoned people, been out there in the paralegal profession and we’ve been in the trenches. It’s great. We want to see success for everyone. So that’s kind of like my motto. I wanted to see everyone succeed. So if I could get all paralegals to get certified, let’s do it.

Jill Francisco:

The more the

Lori Young:

Better. So I do want to point out though, with our curriculum that we’ve developed, I am willing to share that curriculum with any other school if they would like to implement something like that into their own courses, into their school and have more students take the cp. So that would just be wonderful.

Jill Francisco:

You might be getting some calls, watch out.

Lori Young:

I’ve got that email ready to

Jill Francisco:

Go. Yeah, our listeners are tuned in. They’re smart, they’re ready to full speed ahead in 2025.

Lori Young:

The people that are listening, even if you thought that you might want to teach sometime, maybe kind of look at your local colleges and say, Hey, do they have such a program? And maybe you could be the person that starts to say, Hey, I need to meet with the dean, or I need to meet with the director. How can I be a part of this? And that, kind of get your foot in the door, and boy, before you know it,

Jill Francisco:

They’ll be coming to you. I didn’t know how it worked. And I guess you can teach the level below of what you have. So I have a bachelor’s, so I could teach the associates, but I remember asking kind of acting surprise when they wanted me to do it, and they were like, Jill, what more could you have? You have a bachelor’s degree in criminal justice concentration, legal studies. You’ve been a paralegal for 25 years. You have your certification, you have your advanced certification. Two of them to be exact. What more else could we want as a paralegal? You’re actively working every day. What else could we need? I’m like, oh, okay.

Lori Young:

Yeah. And it’s great that we’ve got paralegals actually that are instructing paralegals. I mean, we’ve got attorneys on our team that teach as well as judge pro tem. It’s fantastic to have the widespread, all these legal professionals. So you just get a really good degree of that.

Jill Francisco:

It’s perfect because obviously the networking and things too, you can’t ever discount that because they can use, they’re already using me. Can I list you as a reference? And I don’t see any negatives about the whole thing. So kudos on what you’re doing. It’s phenomenal.

Lori Young:

Well, thank you so much. I love what I’m doing, and so if I can share the wealth of knowledge with students, applicants, paralegals, whatever it is, and just say, Hey, just go for it. It’s the best thing.

Tony Sipp:

Jill, I am sorry. Last conference, you won so many awards. What was the award that you won last year?

Jill Francisco:

I had the President’s award. That’s phenomenal.

Tony Sipp:

So that’s the highest honor that you can possibly get with Nala.

Jill Francisco:

I was definitely flattered and definitely honored because it means a lot because I had what three other paralegals nominate me, I guess is what really means a lot and the things they say. And that nomination was very, very nice, and I appreciate it a lot. And it was a lot of what I did when I was on my platform in Nala and also locally. But yes, I appreciate that.

Tony Sipp:

I mean, you’re the epitome of what a paralegal is.

Jill Francisco:

Oh, thank

Tony Sipp:

You. So I really, I’m so honored to be a part of this and you and gosh, it just elevates my life and my career and who I’m circling my life. And Lori, I’m on your board now. I was just going to add that I’m on your board.

Jill Francisco:

Phenomenal.

Tony Sipp:

Look who I’m circling myself with. Just heroes. Just highly accomplished people. I love it.

Jill Francisco:

That’s a good message to our listeners, Tony. Honestly, I appreciate your kindness and I think a lot of you also, you do a lot of good things. And actually I could learn a lot from you by doing, because you’re even outside the realm, even though if you’re in the legal community, you’re still doing some great community service to those around you, which obviously we all can always do better probably in that category. But that’s a lesson to our listeners of what Tony is saying. I mean, listen to what Tony’s saying. You’re saying you wanted to be a certain level, you want to be a certain thing, and look who you’re associate yourself with. I was on the board of the local, that’s where I started, and then I was teaching. And I mean, like I said, our listeners, just listen to what we’re saying. It’s like once you get your claws in there, don’t let go because you never know where it can take you in the long run.

Lori Young:

I just want to add both Tony and Jill are excellent role models. I see their names out there all the time. And when I see something on LinkedIn or I see something that’s on a webinar, I was like, oh, that’s Tony. I want to take a look at it. Lemme pick what they’re doing because I don’t want to be missing out on something. So it’s just fantastic.

Jill Francisco:

Thank you. Thank

Lori Young:

You. Yeah, surround yourself with those who love the profession.

Tony Sipp:

Amen. Amen. Let’s take a quick commercial break and we will be right back. Welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp. I’m here with Jill Francisco and Lori Young, Lori College of the Canyons is doing some really wonderful work. Can you tell us a little bit more about what is going on and with the community and with the wildfires and how people can get involved, get it engaged and help, and also just your contact information as well so that they can get in contact with you moving forward?

Lori Young:

It’s amazing how giving the people of our College of the Canyons really are. Recently we received an email, even from the foundation, reaching out just for a minor donation of $10. And it can help so many when so many people get together and you can do a big thing. And just recently, I received an email from one of our faculty members that’s on our paralegal studies team and letting us know that she just completed the legal Disaster Assistance relief training. And what’s ideal about this is that we have our students who could actually be volunteers to staff the clinics. And the clinics are through the neighborhood legal services of la. So they’re widespread. And what a fantastic opportunity. So this is just something brand new. I’m not sure where it’s going to go, but we’re onto something good. So I don’t know, Tony, you’ve been out there?

Tony Sipp:

I have been out there, and actually I volunteered with them as it turns out. So I didn’t know about them prior to the fires. And I went to Pasadena, which is the closest to me in Altadena. And so I didn’t know, I just volunteered the story. I told you guys earlier about going to shop at Costco, getting food, donating food, and then delivering food through them. So I think it’s fantastic how it’s a full circle.

Lori Young:

It’s full circle.

Tony Sipp:

Yeah, I think it’s fantastic. Now I want to go back out and volunteer again and really get involved again. This is why I get involved. I want to help others. Jill wants to help others. Laurie, I know you definitely want to help others. I mean, we don’t rise to where we are without wanting to help people and other people. So thank you for allowing me to be part of you and part of this whole circle. I really appreciate that. And if there’s anything more I can do, let me know. I’m here for you and people. Let’s get involved, like subscribe, whatever you need to do, just please get engaged, involved because this is what we’re about right here.

Jill Francisco:

Yes. And like I said, we wanted to put this on here because motivated, I mean, Tony’s motivated. He’s going to get his certification soon. And so a good thing here for our listeners, we will link, of course, the Nala website to explain if you’re out there and you don’t know what the certification is, and we’ve been talking it up pretty good today, so maybe you want to learn more about it and put your pedal to the metal and get that certification. And Lori is just another option. Her and her school out there. I mean, it’s one thing to be doing at this school, but I love how you want to step further and have expanded it to people that are not directly in California and are not directly, or the typical student nine to five, or maybe they’re working, maybe they’re trying to get a second career. Who knows? You have all the options covered. And so our listeners, please, if you’re interested at all, check it out. Listen to what Lori’s saying and take advantage of reaching out to her, reaching out to us, reaching out to Nala, if there’s anything any of us could do and Lapa yes, out there in California,

Lori Young:

Come reach out to us.

Jill Francisco:

Oh, and how funny that you’re Lapin. We’re laps wv, we got that lap.

Lori Young:

Let’s do it.

Jill Francisco:

Yes, just reach out to any of us. Like Tony said, we’re all here to help and motivate and work together to make paralegals in our communities that we live in the best they can be.

Lori Young:

Amen. Well, thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure being one of your guests on your podcast. Just want to make sure that if anyone does want to reach out to me, they can send an email to me at Lori, and it’s LORI dot young, YOUN [email protected]. So I look forward to connecting with you.

Jill Francisco:

Thank you so much, Lori. Appreciate it. Again, thank you. This concludes this episode of The Paralegal Voice. Please subscribe, pass it on to your friends, and we will see you next time on the Paralegal Voice.

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