Turn Expertise into Clients: Building Authority That AI Recognizes, with Karin Conroy from Conroy Creative

Episode Notes

Transcript

Zack Glaser:

Hi, I’m Zack, and this is episode 603 of the Lawyers Podcast, part of the Legal Talk Network. Today, I talk with Karin Conroy of Conroy Creative Counsel about law firm marketing in the age of AI. Specifically though, we’re talking about how now more than ever it is important to show your authority to the world, your authority, your expertise, and how to build your brand in a way that doesn’t rely on AI slop. Anyway, we’ll get into that here in a second. And yeah, here’s my conversation with Karin.

Karin Conroy:

Hi, I’m Karin Conroy, and I am the founder and creative director of Conroy Creative Council. We do law firm marketing.

Zack Glaser:

Hi, Karin. What’s that? Thank you for being with me again. Of course. You’ve been on the podcast multiple times. I think we’ve gone through your pedigree a couple times, so I don’t want to go through too much, but you’ve been connected with us at Lawyerist for a while now, and you’ve been doing what you do, which is help law firms with their marketing for a while now as well.

Karin Conroy:

Yeah.

Zack Glaser:

And I think in some of our previous conversations, we’ve talked about you seeing iterations of the internet coming up and us being around in this space for us going to the cloud and things like that. And lately, Tada, you and I have been talking about AI.

Karin Conroy:

Of course, because that’s what gets the clicks.

Zack Glaser:

That’s what gets the clicks. That’s exactly right. But it gets the clicks because it’s on people’s minds, right?

Karin Conroy:

That’s true. That’s true. Yeah. They go hand in hand.

Zack Glaser:

Yeah. It is on my mind because recently, and I mean, recently, recently, in the last couple days, some of these artificial intelligence companies, the LLM style companies like Claude and ChatGPT have released this ability, these agentic abilities. And I guess they’ve released these agentic abilities before, but we’re starting to get into a land of like, “Oh my God, this thing can actually do stuff for me.

Karin Conroy:

” Yeah. Yeah.

Zack Glaser:

And that has gotten me thinking about how we are interacting with the creation of content and even the consumption of content in a fundamentally different way, even over the last couple of weeks.

Karin Conroy:

Yeah. I think it’s super interesting to look at the progression of this, but then to also put it in the context of previous technological advances. And obviously there’s differences in variations, and this is going at an exponential rate. But what I really encourage people to keep doing in terms of marketing, this is obviously so much bigger than marketing, but we’ve got 20 minutes and so we’re not going to get into the scope of the world. We’re not going to

Zack Glaser:

Solve AI right here.

Karin Conroy:

Oh, man. Yeah. No, we’re going to just do a little sliver. But in terms of marketing is how does this fit and where do these core concepts still apply and where can we take a breath and take a step back and say, okay, what’s a realistic way for me to use this in a way that’s actually going to help? But also there is a very quick kind of avenue to it eroding your trust. And so there’s a lot of articles I’ve been reading lately about this concept of trust erosion and that this is a thing that we’re going to be keep continuing to see, trust erosion where we all now are very wary of MDash’s, for example. And I love the

Zack Glaser:

MDS. Yeah.

Karin Conroy:

I love it, but it has got a bad branding moment right now. Poor MDS.

Zack Glaser:

It does. It does. MDash needs a marketing team.

Karin Conroy:

Seriously. It needs to … I don’t know. I feel like it’s a little too late because even now when I’m using the M Dash, I go back in and throw in a comma. I know. Even though it totally changes the feel of it, right?

Zack Glaser:

Yeah, it does. It does.

Karin Conroy:

But now the M Dash is saying something else. The M Dash is alluding to, “I didn’t write this. ” And whether you did or not, or whether you used some AI and that’s the first thing you’re going to go and look like, “Hey, even though I told you not to put the M Dashes in there, did you do that? And so then I need to go and double check for these indicators that are going to erode the trust.” And now there’s a whole other message coming with whatever this message is I’m putting together, even if it’s just an email, there’s this, “Oh, you couldn’t bother to type out an email you had to use ChatGPT,” which I do all the time, but I’m going to make sure there’s no M dashes. So there’s all these different things happening at the same time, and we need to, as marketers, pay attention to the things that are going to erode that trust like an M Dash.

So we need to use it, but then pay attention at the same time and find that fine tuning line where it’s still working for you, but working for you, not against you.

Zack Glaser:

One of the things that I’ve read and watched recently is this idea that, okay, the Imdash is a, at least right now, a pretty good tell, but the lack of depth to the writing, that is the bigger tell that it was done by AI is it doesn’t say anything really. It doesn’t have any depth. It doesn’t have any … It’s not adding to the conversation. And really, that’s not what AI, the LLMs are for. They’re not there to really add to the conversation.

Karin Conroy:

No, no. They’re there to just summarize and to gather and summarize and kind of regurgitate.

Zack Glaser:

Right. And so I think of our interaction as lawyers, especially in the marketing space as having two issues right now. One is that A, I can create a ton of content. I can create a ton of content. And so there’s no more like, I have to create, I have to write a blog page today or this week, I have to write one- I have a quote. Blog page. Yeah. It’s like, no, you can do that in 13 seconds. And then the other side is how people are finding us. Because personally, I haven’t touched Google in a month. That’s not how I find things. I go and I work with ChatGPT or Claude or something like that. So how is this affecting those things and how attorneys deal with that?

Karin Conroy:

Yeah, I think there’s a lot there because there is this idea that we had to constantly put out this steady stream of content in order to just stay alive on Google. And Google doesn’t want that anymore because it’s not even Google we’re talking to. We’re talking to these LLMs who are making a judgment on what they find on Google being whatever else. So it’s a different conversation. And I’ve seen a lot of different conversations about this where it’s,

Oh, not much has changed. You really just need to keep kind of doing the thing that you’re doing and putting out the content all the way to stop everything that … There’s so much news out there about how to think about all of this. You and I were saying, it’s like drinking from a fire hose at a constant and it changes every single day. Here’s what I know, and here’s how I’m trying to frame it in my own head, is there is this thing on Google called a knowledge panel. Are you familiar with this? I can’t remember if we talked about this in creative assessment. We talked about

Zack Glaser:

It before. Yeah. And I’ve still failed to go look into my own, but you come up in the knowledge panel for your own search, right?

Karin Conroy:

Right. Because I’ve done the work. It does take a little bit of effort. And by a little bit, I mean, a few hours probably, you Google either your name or your brand, more likely your name. And if you Google my name, you’ll see that the result is not just a standard search result. It used to be about a third of the top of the Google search result. Now it’s close to the whole page and it’s basically what Google is finding about you. And in order to make this happen, I had to, first of all, have my name out there on multiple different platforms and be kind of a known thing within Google. And then there was a day when I Googled my name and there was a knowledge panel there, and then it gave me an option to claim it. And so then I had to go through this whole process where I held my license up to the screen and did a video.

It was a whole thing, which is good because it’s sort of like getting that blue check mark on social media, like you’re validated, you’re verified. And I did that probably at least a couple years ago. And now it’s become this big thing. And the reason I keep coming back to this is because this is a visual example of what the LLMs are looking for.

So this is what the LLMs are pulling from and what they think of you. And Google is just, this knowledge panel is showing you like, “Hey, this is what we think of you. This is what we found from all over, all of our sources on the internet.” So you’ll see there’s like my Twitter feed, my appearance is on lawyers. And it’s usually what it wants to see is what everybody else is saying about you that is, it finds that to be more true. And so these LLMs also will find what everyone else is saying about you to be more true than this garbage that you may be churning about yourself on your own about page. Because obviously anybody’s going to say anything like, “I went to Harvard and I … ” But if someone else, if Harvard is saying I went to Harvard, okay, yeah, that’s probably true then.

Zack Glaser:

Well, yeah, I think that’s the thing is like, how does an LLM detect lying?

And so if I see somebody, I literally don’t know how I detect a lie, but we all think, I can probably sniff out a lot of BS, but how does an LLM detect lying? Well, if you’re saying it about yourself, it likely has more potential to be a lie or an exaggeration, but if somebody else is saying it about you and there’s a lot of people saying it about you, then it might have more potential to be true. And so, okay, so if I want to be the best PI attorney, the best car crash attorney in Memphis, Tennessee, I can’t just go out there and be like, “I’m the best car crash attorney in emphasis.” Well, here’s the

Karin Conroy:

Thing you could 20 years ago or let’s see, let me think of when the kind of garbage SEO era was. I’d say 05 to 2010- ish was when people were doing a lot of keyword stuffing and just garbage and it worked. Let’s just be honest, they were doing it because it worked, right? So if you wanted to say, let’s say that you weren’t even finished with law school, let’s say that you weren’t even technically a lawyer yet, but you wanted to throw up a website and say, “I’m the best PI attorney in Memphis. I’ve done 500 car accident cases and blah, blah.” You want to say whatever you want to say, Google’s like, “Okay.” It’s sort of like this bumbling sort of dumb bot. It is not a bumbling, dumb bot anymore. And then these LLMs are the offshoot sort of children of an even smarter bot.

So they are many, many, many times smarter than the smartest version of Google. And they’re going to say, “Wait a minute, you are saying that you are a PI attorney. I think you are 19. I think you are in law school because I just found your law school page on … ” And then your law school is saying that you are still an active student. This is what the rest of the internet is saying about you.

No, we are not going to give you as that result. And so those LLMs are basically going to be more complex in their results based on a lot of other sources.

Zack Glaser:

So now I’ve got to go, instead of being able to just kind of have my website keyword stuff, say, scream it from the rooftops from one spot, now I’ve got to go create that authority somehow,

Karin Conroy:

Right? Right, exactly. Yeah. So now you need to have other people talking about you. And once again, without being overwhelmed by all of this AI stuff, let’s just talk about what that meant 30 years ago before the internet. And that was what we … Marketers were talking about in textbooks that were actual like physical $120 textbooks. What is that? I know. There’s going to be a day. I wonder if my kids are going to have textbooks in college, right? I doubt it. But I did.

Zack Glaser:

I was thinking about encyclopedias the other day and how we used to do research and write on- I just

Karin Conroy:

Was talking to someone about this. Exactly. And you’re like going through the AAAB AA.

Zack Glaser:

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay.

Karin Conroy:

There is the filing system in our brain that works that way. And so if you go back to these textbooks and these ideas of like, what does it mean … First of all, why are we marketing and what are we trying to do and what are these bigger goals? It is this credibility and authority, especially when it comes to law firms. If we’re talking about a product and all that, that’s a little different. But when it comes to law firms, trust, authority, credibility, let’s build all that stuff up so that when something happens to a person that they need your type of services, you’re the top of mind. These are classic marketing words, top of mind, authority, credibility, like building price, product, and promotion, all of this stuff. These are chapters in that textbook, right?

Zack Glaser:

There’s the same stuff that they were doing in Mad Men.

Karin Conroy:

Exactly.

Zack Glaser:

Yeah.

Karin Conroy:

Oh my gosh, we could have a whole Mad Men show.

Zack Glaser:

Oh, we should. We should. We so could. Vote in the comments below if we should have a Mad Men show.

Karin Conroy:

Oh my, that would be so good. Okay. I just had a moment where my brain spiraled off on that.

Zack Glaser:

Okay. But what we’re talking about though, the reason that that is interesting is because the basics that we’ve been doing in Big M marketing are what we’re talking about again, I think of sometimes Simrush and Google Analytics telling us like, “Well, you got 150,000 page views.” And we’ve had these vanity numbers

Karin Conroy:

And

Zack Glaser:

These vanity things and we’ve thought we were counting stuff for so many years and it led us away from this. I feel like now we’re kind of stripping back that veil of what we thought was control and saying, “Go be a damn

Karin Conroy:

Expert.” Right. Yeah. It’s a bunch of garbage. Picture the Wizard of Oz and the curtain is just like a curtain of garbage. It’s kind of smelly.

Zack Glaser:

It doesn’t matter what my SEO is if I’m crap or if my- If

Karin Conroy:

You have no business, if nobody’s calling.

Zack Glaser:

Everybody comes to my website and it’s like, “Nah, I don’t like

Karin Conroy:

Him.” I don’t think so. Yeah.

Zack Glaser:

He does not seem like a-

Karin Conroy:

He’s not my guy.

Zack Glaser:

Yeah. It doesn’t matter.

Karin Conroy:

He does not look like he could do my thing.

Zack Glaser:

Well, and so now it’s like, well, I get to kind of jump over that. There’s SEO, there’s AEO. We still need to be doing those things, but I can kind of jump over that and say, “Let me just be an authority.”

Karin Conroy:

Well, exactly. You get to jump over that and get through that curtain if you truly are an expert and an authority.

Zack Glaser:

If you are trying- I hear people, “Oh, but I’m not the best PI attorney in Memphis.”

Karin Conroy:

Yeah, right. So I don’t have advice for people who are trying to actively

Zack Glaser:

Lie. I don’t know how to do it if you actually are crap at your job,

Karin Conroy:

But if you’re not crap at your job- I’m sorry about that one. I don’t have that answer for that. I’ve been doing this a long time, but that one is not in my wheelhouse.

Zack Glaser:

Well, okay, but let’s go to the people that do have authority and they just need to show it. Exactly. How do we do that? Because people have gotten away from that now, I

Karin Conroy:

Think. Well, exactly. And that’s what I think is the good news here, is that with all of the algorithms and the technical stuff and all of this agentic AI and all of the words, at the end of the day, what I want people to take away is that this is good news for people who truly are experts and authorities because the AI is wading through all the garbage, wading through all that keyword stuffing, and they’re finding the people who are the authorities and the authorities based on what other people are saying. So if you are that authority and you are out there on podcasts, on media appearances, and you’ve got links on other websites and you’ve been doing all of those things and they’re pulling back to your website, let’s also just drop that your website is not going to be your first impression anymore.

Zack Glaser:

But you still have to have it. You

Karin Conroy:

Have to have it as the hub, but it’s not your first impression. It’s not the front door. Nope. The front door is probably some LLM or somebody else’s site. Let’s say you have a CNN media appearance. Somebody saw you on CNN, that’s the first impression. And then they come to your website and now you have to support that and do all the things that you recognize that that’s the second step. So if you are able to, if you have the authority, if you’re looking to build that authority, if you have the credibility, the things to say, and you get out there, you put it out there, then you’re going to be found and it’s going to be a piece of cake. And this AI stuff is good news for you because you’re going to rise to the top because of that.

Zack Glaser:

So you’re telling me that us doing this show increases your authority.

Karin Conroy:

100%. If you look at my knowledge panel, these lawyerist episodes that I have done are almost always, there’s at least one, sometimes two or more right there on that front page of my knowledge panel because lawyerist is saying she knows what she’s talking about.

Zack Glaser:

Right. I just wanted to put it to a real thing because that’s what you’re talking about. You’ve got a thing on your website, conroycreativecouncil.com/authority-tour.

Karin Conroy:

Yeah.

Zack Glaser:

Talk to me about this authority tour because what I’m assuming you’re saying is I can show you how some of this is done at the very least.

Karin Conroy:

Exactly. Well, I can show you and we can also do it for you. So it’s a good amount of work. Yeah.

Zack Glaser:

I like that because lawyers are, I don’t know, trying

Karin Conroy:

To practice law. You should be busy. And so we will put it all together for you because it’s a lot of work. You need to show up and like getting … There’s a combination of some PR stuff that is a ton of work. That’s a whole project just there, just doing the follow-up and the seeking out the right places, finding them, all of that stuff. So we find all the podcast appearances, we find any potential media appearances, we get you on those, we do a whole media kit, we do all of that PR related stuff for that, and then we promote it in various ways. And we make sure that we get all of the clout and the credibility for each of those appearances. And we build the equivalent of your knowledge panel for you in order for you to kind of do your lawyer work, but also be considering this authority and how you’re going to grow in that way.

Zack Glaser:

A lot of times when I think about law and law practice, I think of my father and I feel like my father wouldn’t necessarily think, “Oh, I have enough authority to do that. ” The idea of a lawyer, a solo lawyer, having a media kit seems … It’s wonderful and I think it’s appropriate. So my question really is like, who is this for? And I want

Karin Conroy:

To

Zack Glaser:

Encourage people like it’s for you. Who is this for?

Karin Conroy:

Yeah. First of all, I think your father was probably in a different generation and the up and coming lawyers have no problem being online, no problem in a lot of cases with their egos. But

Zack Glaser:

They don’t have a media kit.

Karin Conroy:

They don’t have a media kit. Let me just talk about what a media kit typically is. It’s a bunch of information that these podcast media places are going to need to know about you that’s very slick, well designed, talks about you, has your headshot, talking points, all of that stuff. Let’s just put together so that when you are going on an appearance, they have everything they need and they don’t have to say, “Okay, what do you want to talk about? ” So that’s a media kit, but it’s very well done and it’s positioned in a way that works for you also, you and your firm. So if you and your firm are trying to grow in a certain angle, like, “Hey, we really want to build our car accident type of cases because we just got out of law school and we were telling everybody that we’re the best and we got to kind of prove it.

” Now I got to be that.

Zack Glaser:

Right. I know. Whoops. Okay. So the niche is still there.

Karin Conroy:

Right. It should be. Absolutely.

Zack Glaser:

Yeah. The idea of niching. Okay.

Karin Conroy:

Exactly. It’s kind of, okay, this is what they’re really good at and what they want to talk about and all that stuff. But who this is for, it could be a combination of people who are at that, like we’re just starting a new firm, but more often than not, it’s a lot of partners who know that they need to be out there. They know they need to be networking and they may be doing some of that and they may be showing up at some other stuff, but they really want to magnify that and multiply it and get the network and borrow the audience that already exists on these other podcasts.

Zack Glaser:

Oh, sorry. My brain just went to … When I talk to a lot of our labsters about doing their marketing, and I say, “How do you get your clients?” And a lot of people, they say, “Referrals.”

Karin Conroy:

Yeah.

Zack Glaser:

It seems like this would be phenomenal for people even that get referrals because-

Karin Conroy:

But that’s the other piece. I mean, you know that I’ve done a lot of podcasts. I have people on my podcast and it is not just the simple math of how many people download that podcast. You and I sat and chatted for a long time before we started recording. You know the kind of work I do, I know the kind of work you do. I am going to send things your way and vice versa because we have a connection and every interaction is that way. So you’re making a connection with a whole audience and a person who is at the kind of head of that audience and that person has the potential to send you a whole bunch of leads as opposed to just one lead at a time as one listener at a time. So there’s a bunch of networking stuff happening there.

Zack Glaser:

Well, and even if I get my referrals from going to local stuff, going to, I’m part of the Lions Club or something like

Karin Conroy:

That,

Zack Glaser:

Having these sorts of media kit things make me look slick, make me look sharp and just- They make

Karin Conroy:

You look like you’re the authority figure on this topic. Right. And here’s the thing, you and I have talked about this whole referral idea. I’ve talked about this ad nauseum, but saying that referrals are how you get your marketing is not a marketing strategy. It’s bad. You’re still marketing. And so to say, like I get this in the phone calls all the time to say, “Oh, I don’t really do marketing. It’s all by referrals.” Well, you are doing marketing because somehow someone’s calling you,

But it’s just badly done. So you need to tie this in and you need to think in terms of, okay, how can I systematize my referrals? How can I make this systematic? How can I take these people? And every time I get a referral, I already know, okay, I’m going to do the following 12 things. I’m going to add this person to an email list. I’m going to add the referral source to a thank you list. I’m going to send them this gift. I’m going to do the following things. And you’ve spent time a year ago thinking about what that is so that when it happens, you check a box and someone else just runs with it.

Zack Glaser:

Yeah.

Karin Conroy:

Yeah. So that’s a whole other thing. But becoming an authority on this topic is the same idea so that when you get these referrals, then all of a sudden you have a system and you’ve got this all in place. And you’ve also got this system that is constantly building that authority and building maybe referral sources through those podcast connections and kind of building that marketing system so that there’s these kind of three levels of marketing. You’re building, stabilizing and growing, right? So in this building part, you’re constantly churning and there’s something happening and you’re not just abandoning building once you get to stabilize. You can still building while you’re also stabilizing. And then once you kind of build these ideas and you’re doing these podcasts and you’re showing up however you’re showing up, then you start to stabilize, you get those numbers and you start to figure out what’s working and where the good leads are coming from and which podcasts am I going to continue to do and which ones were a total waste, taking all that data and then you’re growing and you’re figuring out, okay, how do we really scale this?

How do we take it to the level that I’ve dreamt of? And you’re not trying to scale when you’re in that build phase. You’re building in the build phase.

Zack Glaser:

It’s what’s called build phase. It’s not called scale phase. Exactly. Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense to me. Even to me, that makes sense, Karin.

Karin Conroy:

Right. Exactly. But that’s where people get frustrated is they expect to start in the growth phase and you haven’t done the building. So know where you’re at and be realistic about it and don’t think that the build phase is the shortcut phase. It’s not the shortcut cheater phase. We’re going to build something really solid, really good, good strategy, good messaging, all of that good stuff so that when we get to the next levels, it’s not garbage.

Zack Glaser:

Yeah. Well, Carra, one of the things you and I have talked a couple times over the last year or so, but I use the word couple to mean three or four, which apparently is weird to other people.

Karin Conroy:

Yeah. That’s a weird couple.

Zack Glaser:

Yeah. But you and I have talked a few times. And one of the things that strikes me every time we talk, especially in this world of AI advancements, is that we’re not changing the mantra here.

Karin Conroy:

Yes. Yeah.

Zack Glaser:

You’re not saying, “Oh, you need to go do this because it’s the new fad. You need to go do this. ” You and I haven’t even touched the actual word AEO.

Karin Conroy:

Right. Yeah.

Zack Glaser:

And we need to be thinking about that. But what I really like about your mentality on these things and your advice here is that it hasn’t changed over the long haul here while everything else has, and it’s still correct. So I like that. It’s the build and gain authority, and we kind of got to get back to basics here, y’all. Right. But

Karin Conroy:

It’s good news because

Things have changed. Let’s also be realistic. There is a lot going on with AI and it is changing things, but for those people who have the authority and the credibility, that’s what AI is looking for. And so that’s good for you. If you are trying to do the shortcuts and you are thinking that you’re going to build an entire automated law firm with bots, I have bad news for you. It’s not so good. Oh, man. But if you’ve got this expertise, you’ve got things to talk about, you know what you’re talking about and people know that, then we just need to expand on that and let AI know about that. And then that’s going to be good because all that garbage is going to go away. That’s the thing people are freaking out about is that the garbage is going away and it’s like, okay, I’m okay with the garbage going away because- And I’m not the garbage.

Garbage. Exactly. That was harmonious. Yeah.

Zack Glaser:

Yeah, that’s exactly right. If I’m not that … That’s something you said earlier before we started recording was that, again, getting into how easy it is to make content. And if you try to do the shortcuts of being like, “Well, I’m just going to create a crap ton of blogs,” that’s garbage content

Karin Conroy:

And

Zack Glaser:

The AI now or these bots are sifting through that and sending it away.

Karin Conroy:

And to be fair, everybody’s promoting this like, “Oh my gosh, a website in 14 minutes.” So it’s hard to find that balance and I’m seeing all this stuff and I’ve tried a million different things because I have to say, “Oh, okay, that’s a really a good sales pitch. Let me see.” And then I go in and it’s like, “Okay, that’s garbage.” So it’s hard to find that place of where the garbage is and trying things out. And we’ve all seen the too many M dashes because that’s become a thing. But when AI first started, everybody’s using the M dashes and nobody really realized it until they saw like 700 of them. And they’re like, “Wait a minute, what is what the M Dash is? ” So to be fair, there is a good place for AI and it’s about finding that balance and using it efficiently without losing your soul and losing the core of that authority that you bring to the table and making sure that that stays healthy and valid and in the forefront.

Zack Glaser:

To the listeners, if you want to stop being garbage, you need to go to conroycreativecouncil.com/authority-tour. No, but really the listeners out there have authority. They are experts. They know what they’re doing. We are lawyers. We know how to practice these things. And if you want to start thinking about how do I need to position myself in a way that I can get seen and I will attract clients, that seems to be what this conroycreativecouncil.com/authority-tour is.

Karin Conroy:

Right. Authority-tour, not M-dash.

Zack Glaser:

Not M-dash. And it is the hyphen, not the N-dash either, if you want to get super nerdy with everybody.

Karin Conroy:

I have 3,000 fonts on my computer. We could talk fonts and glyphs and all that

Zack Glaser:

Stuff. That’s a whole other show. We will. I have plenty of typeface and type setting. I come from a long line of type setters and yeah.

Karin Conroy:

I love it.

Zack Glaser:

And

Karin Conroy:

The Gutenberg press. Is

Zack Glaser:

That

Karin Conroy:

In your family history?

Zack Glaser:

Not that. We go back to some other presses that my … Yeah, the line of type machine, my grandfather had worked on various things and my uncle had worked on various things. And not anything impressive, but just like we would do some …

Karin Conroy:

So he would love this MDASH conversation.

Zack Glaser:

He would absolutely love it.

Karin Conroy:

Yes. He’d be all in.

Zack Glaser:

Yes. Or hate it. I don’t know. But he’d have an opinion.

Karin Conroy:

Exactly. Yeah. I think that the goal is to find the way for the AI bots to find you so that you’re showing up in a similar idea as to the knowledge panel. Whether you have a knowledge panel or not, use that as the visual in your brain so that it’s just authority. This is where we found this person all over the internet. This is all the things we know to be true about this person. And then draw the line. Don’t go too far with the AI where all of a sudden now it’s going to erode all that.

Zack Glaser:

Awesome. Well, Karin, once again, thank you for being on the show and bringing your authority and your knowledge to all of our listeners. And I’m going to say it again because you got to. If people want to learn more, they can go to Conray Creative Council that’s sees on all of that. Com/authority-tour. And yeah, book your authority tour.

Karin Conroy:

That’s it. Thank you.

Zack Glaser:

Awesome. Thanks, Karin. We’ll see you.

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